$5/$10 NL: KK Multi-Way - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

$5/$10 NL: KK Multi-Way

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

1 2

Page 1 of 2

1 2

07-03-2014 , 04:04 PM

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

$1000 eff. My image young TAG. UTG folds, I open KdKs in UTG+1 to $40. MP, Button and Blinds call.

Flop: 8c6h2h Pot ~ $160 Checked to me, I c-bet $100. Only BB calls.

BB is a recreational player, 50ish, businessman like looking. Few reads on him as he's newish to the game. Overcalls his blinds.

Turn: 8d Pot ~ $360 BB checks. I check back.
River: Qs BB bets $250.

You and why? Feedback on all streets much appreciated.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:07 PM

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,071

Pretty easy call.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:09 PM

javale mc g

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 246

why did you check turn? seems like a great card to get value from his range.
as played, obv call.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:16 PM

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

The 8d is not a real great turn card. Is villain likely to call $40 pre with an 8 in his hand? How strong did you read him? I don't mind the check if it's for pot control but that means you have to call the river.

If you had bet the turn and he check-raised you, are you folding? Is he capable of representing an 8?

This seems very villain-dependent to me. More reads/info would be helpful.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:25 PM

Havax

grinder

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 597

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko the munkey

It's $30 more to win $130 in the BB for a rec player. Plenty of 8s in his range. You think he's just mucking 87, 86s, 89, A8 with those odds as he sees them? I think the 8 is an awful turn card. He could very well have one, but at the same time if he's at all competent he will know it's a good river to bet out at knowing you are presumably afraid of the top pair pairing.

Too many draws that missed to not call now though in my opinion, and since you checked the turn you're pretty under-repped in a way - a lot of Vs will put you on "AK that missed" when you check turn and try to steal it.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:34 PM

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Quote:

Originally Posted by javale mc g

why did you check turn? seems like a great card to get value from his range.
as played, obv call.

Pot control and top pair pairing on the turn is not a good card for me.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:36 PM

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko the munkey

The 8d is not a real great turn card. Is villain likely to call $40 pre with an 8 in his hand? How strong did you read him? I don't mind the check if it's for pot control but that means you have to call the river.

If you had bet the turn and he check-raised you, are you folding? Is he capable of representing an 8?

This seems very villain-dependent to me. More reads/info would be helpful.

Yes and no respectively.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:46 PM

TJ Eckleburg12

Only Gives Out Winners

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 15,133

As played, I'd call the river.

There are pros and cons to betting the turn vs checking. By checking you pot-control and possibly induce bluffs from pocket pairs, busted diamond draws, and Qx. So call now and nh.

Quote

07-03-2014 , 04:49 PM

jonrubs

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,999

River closer to raise than a fold. With that said easy call

Quote

07-03-2014 , 09:59 PM

#10

gangip

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,087

260 on turn
call now

Quote

07-04-2014 , 01:15 PM

#11

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Quote:

Originally Posted by gangip

260 on turn
call now

Why would you bet with top pair pairing? Isn't this the perfect spot to pot control?

Quote

07-04-2014 , 01:16 PM

#12

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Rizzo:

Spoiler:

Quote

07-04-2014 , 10:15 PM

#13

borg23

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 15,044

villian made the bare minimum
buy him dinner

Quote

07-04-2014 , 10:38 PM

#14

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olaff

Why would you bet with top pair pairing? Isn't this the perfect spot to pot control?

He calls turn with all his draws and might easily raise with an 8 = by betting we get information and value.

Also if we ch and riv comes a overcard we wont get any more value by his medium PPs.

Oh and by checking and on river he bets we get ourselves in a annoying spot especially if a card that completes the draws comes. (This card tho is a easy call)

Quote

07-05-2014 , 01:51 PM

#15

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Those advocating bet on turn.. if raised we fold and if called we fold to a river bet? Right?

Quote

07-05-2014 , 05:20 PM

#16

AAismyfriend

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,841

turn check is good readless. def snap river.

Quote

07-08-2014 , 02:17 PM

#17

rongeremy

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olaff

Those advocating bet on turn.. if raised we fold and if called we fold to a river bet? Right?

Well.. If he just calls, I am probably betting the river as well... 99-JJ is still in the range along with underpairs..

If he has KK beat, he will raise you on the turn. When called, I'd imagine you could still get super thin value from 99-JJ.

Quote

07-08-2014 , 02:33 PM

#18

DGAF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by javale mc g

why did you check turn? seems like a great card to get value from his range.
as played, obv call.

why don't you live up to 1/2 your potential???

Quote

07-14-2014 , 03:51 PM

#19

RoyalRumble

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 382

Turn bet gets value from 33-QQ, 6x which now have 2 pairs, flush draws may call and if they fold out their equity that's OK. 8x is obviously a smaller part of his range now we see 2 of them so can't check back fearing that he has hit it.

Quote

07-14-2014 , 04:48 PM

#20

Olaff

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,627

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalRumble

Turn bet gets value from 33-QQ, 6x which now have 2 pairs, flush draws may call and if they fold out their equity that's OK. 8x is obviously a smaller part of his range now we see 2 of them so can't check back fearing that he has hit it.

My thinking is exactly the opposite. When top pair pairs the turn, I see it as the perfect spot to pot control 1-pair hands. Does anyone else think so too?

I used to think like you when top pair pairs HU or 3-way: "o now it's soooo unlikely that he has trips, fire away turn, wooo!" and I've gotten ****ed hard enough times to adjust my take on this a little bit

Quote

07-14-2014 , 04:57 PM

#21

RoyalRumble

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 382

You said that you felt confident of folding to a turn raise as villain is very unlikely to c/r turn as bluff so I am less concerned with pot control here.

Do you think this range for him to have called flop and call that turn is ridiculously off? This isn't including all the flush draws either which would give us even more reason to bet.

Board: 8c 6h 2h 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.450% 62.45% 00.00% 26214 0.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 37.550% 37.55% 00.00% 15762 0.00 { QQ-22, A8s, A6s, K8s, Q8s, J8s, T8s, 97s+, 85s+, 75s+, 65s, A8o, A6o, 97o+, 85o+, 75o+ }

Quote

07-15-2014 , 01:17 AM

#22

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olaff

Pot control and top pair pairing on the turn is not a good card for me.

checking turn is terrible. if you're calling blank rivers anyways, then may as well bet turn instead. bet folding turn gets you value from draws and worse two pairs, and you can safely fold to a raise. checking gives him a free card and on top of that you're paying him off on river anyways when you "pot control"

Quote

07-15-2014 , 01:19 AM

#23

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

another way of looking at it is this: you're going to lose the same amount (more or less) when he has 8x whether or not you bet the turn. but you give all his worse hands a chance to realize his equity. whereas if you bet turn, with his worse hands, he can either call with wrong odds or fold and surrender all his equity. betting turn is a win win regardless of what he does. checking is a lose lose situation for u

Quote

07-15-2014 , 05:08 AM

#24

TimeBomb

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,676

Betting the turn is really bad, and raising the river is epic badness. Think hand is well played, I'd need more info to fold.

Quote

07-15-2014 , 06:56 AM

#25

TimeBomb

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,676

What are you supposed to get called by on turn, a FD? You lose some value from overpair but vill probably bets them out on river and you have an easy call or if you are so confident raise and make the same money. Good chance 99 gets mucked on that turn anyways if you bet.

Quote

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last