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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:32 PM   #1
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5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Villian: Mid 20's reg. Solid winning tag, not much of a gambler or hero caller. Definitely is more comfortable dictating the action and slow playing/pot controlling. Stack covers.

Hero: Playing on the loose aggressive side of tag, but not showing down many hands or doing anything crazy. In ~3 hrs has shown down 1 3 barrell bluff and has only raised post flop once. Stack ~1.8k

Pre - Villian opens utg+1 to 45, folded to me in the co with 46d and I call blinds fold.

Flop (105) - j64r. Villian c-bets 65, I raise to 215 and he calls fairly quickly.

Turn (535) - A. Villian checks, I bet 330 and villian calls after about 20 sec.

River (1165) - A. Villian checks, I? I have about 1.2k behind.

I've been trying to "have it" more often because I feel like most big pots I play I don't and I get looked up lighter than most other ppl even when I am playing tight and only showing down good hands. I swear I could post solid consistent wins if I played very basic poker and never really bluff, but then I get spots like this. Also if river is 10/Q/K do you v-bet?
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:24 AM   #2
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

I think a 3bet is better preflop vs someone the enjoys having the betting lead (especially IP). It will allow us to play a greater % of hands in a more +EV manner postflop. If this is not your standard and you're just mixing it up for deception please disregard.

I dunno if you thought about your sizing OTF enough. I make either larger on the 250 side or smaller like 185. Making it 185 will allow us to get called wider on later streets and may even induce a player like this to overplay his hand on the turn if he makes a two pair (only getting looked up by sets, folding worse 2 pair). betting larger will allow us to bet like 400 into 600 and jam river for like 1050 into 1400.

As played, a river jam is pretty credible vs a thinking reg but vs this guy who is probably ABC with a few tricks and probably uncomfortable w/o the initiative with a hand that is face-up by the ricer I don't think he will fold KJ+ or any overpairs here given how much his perceived range has increased and our combos of Ax being diminished with the river.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:16 AM   #3
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

wtf std c/f a jam doesn't accomplish anything
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:53 AM   #4
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Don't even check. Just fold.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:41 AM   #5
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Look at the dealer and say you did it to me again.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by VvsKing View Post
Look at the dealer and say you did it to me again.
Nice.

Far as op goes, Meh I'm jamming
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:50 AM   #7
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

I'm not bluffing it, I play kind of LAGgy and I feel like I get snapped off there a lot - I think if guys are calling me on flop/turn with like KJ/KK/QQ they be so much more likely to call when the river seemingly improves their hand. Also I feel like he is more likely to call with hands that you had beat, especially if your image is "aggressive" (fwiw). Btw, we're like never good here right? I mean its really a stretch to think that he opens 75s in +1 and then b/c, c/c...


some questions,
1) out of the made hands that villain bet/calls the flop with, do you think he has worse than Jx in his range? like 77-TT?
2) assuming you flatted KJ/AJ/QQ/KK (maybe QJ) pre, do you raise his Cbet with those, or mostly just flat? does villain know how you play top pair- ish type hands?
3) do you bluff raise that board often? its probably not bad with like 78s or QTs (with backdoor FD)
4) would you raise flop with 75s?


lastly - I think both 3b and flatting pre are fine.

Last edited by masaraksh; 07-23-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:51 AM   #8
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Is everyone ITT drunk or being ironic? Aren't we (potentially) closing the action?

Unless you are really, really getting looked up light, I check it back. Are you hoping he has QQ?
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #9
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Check it back, and I wouldn't vbet any broadway river either fwiw.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:40 AM   #10
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

this is why you fold pre against: Mid 20's reg. Solid winning tag, not much of a gambler or hero caller.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:25 PM   #11
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

What's he calling the turn with that he is not calling the river with?
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:59 PM   #12
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cook- View Post
What's he calling the turn with that he is not calling the river with?
This was my thought. His range is solidly hands that we lose to and the river card changes nothing in his mind (or shouldn't). If we were much deeper, then it could be a bluff spot, but he is going to call anything reasonable getting 2-1.

Unfortunately I would check and get shown QQ.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #13
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Sucky river to bluff. Check behind sadly. If you want to bet river I would bet 750 instead of jamming. Looks like a stronger value bet and he might talk himself into a hero fold of QQ
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mike dexter View Post
Don't even check. Just fold.
Lol'd hard, but all jokes aside, i'm going with this also ^^^^^^
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:30 PM   #15
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Re: 5/10 nl The counter gives me fits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh View Post
I'm not bluffing it, I play kind of LAGgy and I feel like I get snapped off there a lot - I think if guys are calling me on flop/turn with like KJ/KK/QQ they be so much more likely to call when the river seemingly improves their hand. Also I feel like he is more likely to call with hands that you had beat, especially if your image is "aggressive" (fwiw). Btw, we're like never good here right? I mean its really a stretch to think that he opens 75s in +1 and then b/c, c/c...


some questions,
1) out of the made hands that villain bet/calls the flop with, do you think he has worse than Jx in his range? like 77-TT?
I put his hand range at 99+ pretty much, maybe slightly looser but I don't think he is ever opening k10o in early mid position
2) assuming you flatted KJ/AJ/QQ/KK (maybe QJ) pre, do you raise his Cbet with those, or mostly just flat? does villain know how you play top pair- ish type hands?
I don't think villian has seen me play top pair when not opening, but I would flat all of those
3) do you bluff raise that board often? its probably not bad with like 78s or QTs (with backdoor FD)
I semi-bluff a decent amount, and I don't air it out a ton either
4) would you raise flop with 75s?
Sometimes


lastly - I think both 3b and flatting pre are fine.
I usually don't 3-bet these hands, and when I do it is usually not HU unless I feel the button is likely to do something
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