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| Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies |
01-27-2012, 03:54 AM
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#1
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 207
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5/10 loose live game
I have $2500 in front of me, everyone has at least $1500-$1800 in front of them...
utg + 1 opens to 35 (hes playing solid and straightforward, capable of making moves, but mostly plays straightforward), good solid player flats on the cutoff, i flat on the button with AQ...
flop is Q Q 4 with two diamonds....
original raiser c-bets $65, cutoff calls....
Please give me good arguments for flatting or for raising here....in the long run, what is the most profitable play?....for the few times one of them actually has the case queen, would it be profitable to raise here? or is flatting and keeping in weaker holdings better in the long run? I also had the Ace of diamonds for a backdoor flush...In this particular case, both players had around $2k to start the hand.
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01-27-2012, 04:53 AM
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#2
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old hand
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,262
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
I think this is a raise. Calling after a bet and a call on the flop is going to be perceived as very suspicious. If both of these opponents are fairly capable, you will not get paid off on later streets unless they catch their two outer and then you are behind. Also it is very possible that one of them has KQ or QJ i in which case you wanna get money in now before the board puts another diamond out there or starts to make the board scary enough where you don't get full value on the river.
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01-27-2012, 08:49 AM
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#3
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journeyman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: carpentersville, il
Posts: 327
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Raise
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01-27-2012, 09:26 AM
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#4
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centurion
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 110
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Raise for sure. They will have a hard time giving you credit for AQ exactly with no 3 bet here and you need to force out flush draws. This hand plays well heads up where you may be able to just call IP but 3 way, you have to raise.
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01-27-2012, 11:57 AM
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#5
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gorilla position
Posts: 696
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Raise. I guess you maybe lose one additional bet from TT or a 4 on a blank turn, but that pales in comparison to other aspects (charging flush draws) especially with redraw equity.
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01-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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#6
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,928
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
depends a ton on your image. if you have a loose, wild image, raise, especially so if villains would play back or are generally stationey. if you are all nits i would just call.
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01-27-2012, 02:10 PM
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#7
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwansolo
depends a ton on your image. if you have a loose, wild image, raise, especially so if villains would play back or are generally stationey. if you are all nits i would just call.
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+1 - I def wouldnt raise unless your image is bad
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01-27-2012, 05:30 PM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Huntington Hills
Posts: 317
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Quote:
Originally Posted by catch thirtythree
Raise
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This
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01-27-2012, 10:21 PM
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#9
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,907
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
they have to at least consider the possibility that your bet is bluff when you squeeze / raise on a paired board in position. pretty good situation for you.
also raising inflates the pot now, when you're almost positive you have the best hand. your opponents do have about $2k that you need to try to get in the middle after all.
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01-28-2012, 01:36 AM
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#10
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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seat 5
Posts: 577
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Raise for value.
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01-28-2012, 12:13 PM
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#11
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,401
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
I think it comes down to getting value from decent worse hands vs. getting value from air/bluff catchers. In this case the player you described should have a tight opening range in EP. Something like 77+, AQ+ and maybe some SCs for balance, plus sometimes 22-66 and/or some weaker suited Broadway like AJs/ATs/KQs/KJs/QJs
So lets break down that range. AK, occasional SCs and non-Q suited Broadway is air except for the few combos of diamond draws. AA/KK/KQs/QJs are medium-strong made hands that will give you some value but only KQ is likely to play for stacks. 55-JJ are SDV hands that might give you one more street. AQ/44 are happy to play for stacks.
Now lets think about his tendencies with different parts of his range. He is unlikely to 3-bet his air given your description of him. He might however barrel an A, K or even J. So vs. Air calling is better. Vs. The SDV part of his range its close. He is more likely to call a bet on turn or river with a hand like TT than to Call a raise on the flop with the caller still to act. Vs. The medium-strong part of his range raising is better to get value before a scarecard comes and to allow us to rep the FD more effectively. If we flat flop and bet big or raise blank turn our perceived range is stronger than if we raise flop. As others pointed out, his willingness to bluff-catch will depend on his image of you.
Overall I think maxing value vs. the medium-strong part of his range is more important than maxing value vs. his second pair or air. I would raise.
If he were more aggro and had a wider preflop range I think it becomes a flat.
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01-28-2012, 10:56 PM
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#12
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: smallest douche
Posts: 315
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerslut321
I have $2500 in front of me, everyone has at least $1500-$1800 in front of them...
utg + 1 opens to 35 (hes playing solid and straightforward, capable of making moves, but mostly plays straightforward), good solid player flats on the cutoff, i flat on the button with AQ...
flop is Q Q 4 with two diamonds....
original raiser c-bets $65, cutoff calls....
Please give me good arguments for flatting or for raising here....in the long run, what is the most profitable play?....for the few times one of them actually has the case queen, would it be profitable to raise here? or is flatting and keeping in weaker holdings better in the long run? I also had the Ace of diamonds for a backdoor flush...In this particular case, both players had around $2k to start the hand.
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raise ainc.
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01-30-2012, 07:06 PM
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#13
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adept
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 808
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
raise for value
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01-30-2012, 07:16 PM
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#14
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: underground
Posts: 2,636
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Better question: should you even have a calling range here?
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01-30-2012, 07:29 PM
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#15
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journeyman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 309
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Re: 5/10 loose live game
quads
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