Meh generally OOP without the initiative I play super nitty pre in live games, if it seems like they might start exploiting that tendency then just min 4bet once or twice and they'll almost certainly slow down but widening your flatting range is only possible if you're a total gangster postflop, which very few people are (I know I'm not). If we got 3bet by an active small blind or big blind though there are very few hands I'd fold, I know 'power of position' is a cheesy phrase but it really does apply in these spots.

Also I meant 'underestimate', not 'overestimate', in that previous post.

Explain. Was thinking like masakresh

Villian's 3bet is really good if he gets you to call with KQ. Villian 3betting you pretty often is a good adjustment if your gonna call a lot of 3bets oop.

I dont care for calling 3 bets OOP. Strangely enough I have not been exploited so that I must 4 bet bluff. Shows just how weak the general live grinders are.

+1

Live players do not generally 3 bet light, therefore KQ is a pretty easy muck OOP to a 3 bet. That being said, on the flop, get the money in now or the turn, doesn't really matter. You are basically only behind AQ here, and if he does have AQ, then he plays awfully.

Pardon if this sounds harsh, but...
calling the 3 bet OOP with KQo = Routine non winning 1-2 level of play

That is a monster error with KQo which means there are tons more in there. Villain should have never been able to pwn you in this way with AQ.

Knowing and realizing your mistakes, "and" how they could extend throughout your overall game is a big step in raising your skill level. This one I will bet extends wide across your game. I say all this so that you really know the strength of an error such as this.

[QUOTE=AintNoLimit;34133140]Pardon if this sounds harsh, but...
calling the 3 bet OOP with KQo = Routine non winning 1-2 level of play

That is a monster error with KQo which means there are tons more in there. Villain should have never been able to pwn you in this way with AQ.

Knowing and realizing your mistakes, "and" how they could extend throughout your overall game is a big step in raising your skill level. This one I will bet extends wide across your game. I say all this so that you really know the strength of an error such as this.[/QUO

Yeah, I realized this. Thanks for your input, I agree as well. I'll be contacting you for coaching. This weekend I realized a lot of leaks in my game.

AQ.

What other hand could villian possibly have other than aq. Tag's don't 3-bet qj pre, and he 3-bets flop with aa/kk? Lolo if so find me this game I will give you 20% of my action free. Pre-flop is bad but not terrible, the flop is just epic badness I don't know what you are trying to do if not fold out all hands you bet and get the one that beats you to shove so you can fold.

as a rule thats probably true, but i've started 3betting wider in some spots a little while back and its def had positive results at 5/10 and 10/20 games. I used to never really 3b QJs almost ever but now i don't think its all that bad. You have good equity against 55-JJ/AK/AQ which is a standard 3bet calling range for live players. You also have initiative and can turn your hand into a bluff on the right boards which will put enough pressure and fold out a huge part of villain's range. You also rarely get 4bet bluffed - even when playing the better regs in the bigger games. Also, squeezing QJ has also worked for me (i.e. loose player opens, 2 callers, and you 3bet) but it might be that 3betting ATC is nearly as good in such spots...... anyway, thats just a pointless rant since i do agree with above that villain probably doesn't have QT/QJ often if at all.

As for flop play, I think AQ played it worse. Peoples C/R ranges on that board are going to be very polarized (either trips+ or "bluff"). I think 3betting AQ (although it can look FOS at times, with some players) only really stacks like KQ/QJs, always gets stacked by better, and almost surely folds out all the bluffs (since no one will ever 4bet over the top as a bluff).

I think bet/calling there with (essentially) the nuts is better/standard since it balances the times when you bet/call overpairs or the times you float the C/R (obv player dependent though)

At least by c/r/4b the KQ he has a non-zero chance of stacking AA that refuses to fold. There's really no merit at all to the way AQ played it.

You made a good point; I wasn't sure how light his 3 betting range was. He'd done it to me and others about 3/4 times in 2 hours.

Also I'm not sure if I remember the positions correctly, it may have been more like I was HJ and he was CO. Part of me was thinking he was 3 betting me because he thought I was opening light.

Anyways, good analysis. Thanks, probably should've folded most of the time.

Big difference between you being in UTG+2 vs the HJ

There is really only 1 hand better than aq, and if I had aq I would never fold, although I also wouldn't 3-bet the flop but other than that I play it same as villian. As loose/bluffy as my image often is I expect good players to often fold kq to me here and everyone else is stacking off with kq without a flop 3-bet. I just don't see people 3-betting pre AND post this light to ever merit this play. I will 3-bet pre with q3 and junk hands but it doesn't mean I ma stacking off to a competent player here, and I am sure as **** not 3-betting flop. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a 3-bet pre AND post without it being something ridiculous like top set. His line is just so strong I think it is pretty optimistic that you are good here. At least if the board wasn't a rainbow you could have the flush draw excuse but you don't.

Fold preflop to the 3-bet.

I probably call the flop bet, but this decision confuses me. Player dependent, I guess. I think a raise might be best against certain players and dynamics just because of how FOS it looks, but this isn't really a dynamic that I personally have explored, so I don't know.

The 3-bet is so weird. I can't put him on anything. If he'd raised more, I'd probably have to call, since his line looks more like a donkey going berserk with AA than AQ. But berserk donkeys don't min-3-bet. I guess… call? Or maybe fold? I dunno, it's close. I hate raising.