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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 03-25-2017, 04:46 PM   #1
Pro Playa
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5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

Live 5/10. My image is solid, TAG.

V1 is rec fish - Button - 2k

V2 is super nit reg ( hasn't played hand in 4 hrs) - UTG - 2k

Hero - 1500 stack - CO

Action:
V1 limp UTG. MP limps. Hero limp with 22. Button, SB, BB all limp.

Flop: 8d 4d 2c

V1 fires 65. MP folds. Hero raises 210. V2 tanks very long time, over 4 mins, then calls.

Heads up to turn: 7s

Hero checks turn. V2 bets 1100 quickly.

Hero: ??

(Thoughts on all streets)






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Old 03-25-2017, 05:52 PM   #2
discgolfing
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

You mixed up the positions of villains in your description, so I don't know who is who.

How to play 22 pre in this situation depends a lot on table dynamics. If the table is weak, we could raise this up and try to iso or scoop up all the dead money. If we're in middle position, there are good players behind us, and the table in general is more stationary - we probably just want to fold. Our range is going to be very face up if we limp, allowing anyone in position behind us to exploit us profitably. And I'd rather pick more suited connector type hands that can flop much better than 22 to put in our pfr range. If there aren't many good players behind, or if we're in cutoff or hijack, or if there are limpers in the hand who will stack off light if we flop a set - limping is fine.

Raising the flop makes sense with so many players this deep on fd board.

If v on the turn is the super nit - turn is an easy check/fold - what worse hands could he possibly take this line with? He should be folding all 2 pair combos pre and then on the flop he should be folding all worse hands to your raise with exception of 6d5d which just got there.

If button is rec fish... it's really hard to analyze with no description other than, "rec fish." His sizing kind of makes me think he picked up equity with the 7 but doesn't have you beat (do you have 2d? Can he have 6d2d? 5d2d?). I probably wouldn't fold.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:13 PM   #3
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5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

V2 is button

Can't edit OP to fix the typo :/


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Old 03-27-2017, 05:00 AM   #4
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

what is V's range calling the flop.

fold turn, next hand.
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:52 AM   #5
SetzerG
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

drawing to quads here against super nit. Snap, but sigh/fold imo
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Old 03-30-2017, 12:10 AM   #6
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

Uh... What am I missing here? Why did we check the turn? Turn is an off suit 7 right, completing only 56dd? Do we think he tanked and then flatted with 88 or 44? Doesn't a super nit raise 88 OTF like 100%? Are we really just check/giving up because we think his flop flatting range is THAT strong...? Doesn't he have the NFD here a lot?

Now that we have checked and he bet over a G it looks a lot more like we are beat.. but yeah... I'm betting turn I think.
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:41 AM   #7
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r View Post
Uh... What am I missing here? Why did we check the turn? Turn is an off suit 7 right, completing only 56dd? Do we think he tanked and then flatted with 88 or 44? Doesn't a super nit raise 88 OTF like 100%? Are we really just check/giving up because we think his flop flatting range is THAT strong...? Doesn't he have the NFD here a lot?

Now that we have checked and he bet over a G it looks a lot more like we are beat.. but yeah... I'm betting turn I think.


Agree with this. I'd bet the turn thinking he has an overpair which makes sense for a super nit (QQ+ w diamond blocker). As played fold.



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Old 03-30-2017, 09:05 AM   #8
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

why aren't you calling the clock when this clown tanks for 4 mins?
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:18 PM   #9
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

this is the fastest call in history + tip the dealer
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:40 PM   #10
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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this is the fastest call in history + tip the dealer
Agreed, he's never betting that much on turn with nuts/straight/88
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:41 PM   #11
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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Originally Posted by blackgall24 View Post
Agree with this. I'd bet the turn thinking he has an overpair which makes sense for a super nit (QQ+ w diamond blocker). As played fold.



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What do u mean? if he's range is qq+. Then your ahead.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:26 PM   #12
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

If he really tanked 4min that's almost never a better hand. People don't hollywood THAT long when they have the nuts.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:35 PM   #13
blackgall24
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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Originally Posted by Linkavich2424 View Post
What do u mean? if he's range is qq+. Then your ahead.


See how my response could be confusing. To clarify, I think his range when he calls the flop is an overpair or a set, more weighted towards an overpair given his long tank.

But as played it's tough to call such a large overbet.


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Old 04-01-2017, 11:55 AM   #14
Alsi
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

call flop is an option to keep the pot small ie he already bet 65 PSB...
never get broke in unraised pot where ranges are larger on this flop..

on this specific flop , 27 cards from the deck put a straight or flush on the return, or 25 in odds if u consider he got 2 of the cards necessary to make straight or flush.

Ok i might see MUB then I would fold vs NIT except he is that Bad that he overvaluate overpair
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:00 PM   #15
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

I hate going broke in limp pots. Super nit UTG limp. 88, 44. doubt he can limp with 56suited right? Is he capable of limping aces / kings hoping to hit it big then going crazy? Hmmm, sigh but I might fold...
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:34 AM   #16
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
why aren't you calling the clock when this clown tanks for 4 mins?
LOL best response itt

on a serious note... yall do realize this is a limped pot, right? Pretty laughable you guys are assuming he's weighted towards overpairs. 44/88/65s all seem extremely reasonable for him to play this way -- its not good to be 3betting flop with all your nutted hands with a super nitty image, people will just over-fold, and despite how nitty he is, I'm sure he's not brain-dead, so I see 0 reason why we can discount them from his range.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:02 AM   #17
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
LOL best response itt

on a serious note... yall do realize this is a limped pot, right? Pretty laughable you guys are assuming he's weighted towards overpairs. 44/88/65s all seem extremely reasonable for him to play this way -- its not good to be 3betting flop with all your nutted hands with a super nitty image, people will just over-fold, and despite how nitty he is, I'm sure he's not brain-dead, so I see 0 reason why we can discount them from his range.
glad it's the best response but i wasn't joking. there is no reason to give some dude who never plays a hand 4 minutes to think when he finally does over a 200 dollar bet.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:47 AM   #18
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

I've read enough of your posts to know you weren't joking, but I found it a hilarious reply regardless.

I suppose I should have said "as for the hand in question...", as opposed to "on a serious note..."
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:22 AM   #19
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
why aren't you calling the clock when this clown tanks for 4 mins?
Not sure whether I would call the clock, but super LOL at anyone who takes four minutes in that spot.

Honestly, if live games had a "shot clock", it wouldn't bother me a bit.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:50 AM   #20
Alpha Fish
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
LOL best response itt

on a serious note... yall do realize this is a limped pot, right? Pretty laughable you guys are assuming he's weighted towards overpairs. 44/88/65s all seem extremely reasonable for him to play this way -- its not good to be 3betting flop with all your nutted hands with a super nitty image, people will just over-fold, and despite how nitty he is, I'm sure he's not brain-dead, so I see 0 reason why we can discount them from his range.
well then the description is way off. he's either a supernit who folds 4hours straight and then he never plays 6 high from any position and snap jams the flop with a set cause the pot is big enough already. those types would never want it to potentially go 3 way to the turn on this board

with a supernit it's jj-99 all day - he didn't open cause he's supernit but then the flop comes 8 high so he feels like he deserves the pot now and the turn check had actually induced him to "protect"
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:42 PM   #21
YGOchamp
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

Eh, my guess would be there were very few pots that were limped.

I play with a supernit as described, and he'll fold 88/44/65s all day for $50, but will call it all day for $10
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:46 PM   #22
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

He flopped a set, and wanted to see a safe turn before getting aggro at it. Since the 7 made him feel vulnerable to even more draws, he bet crazy big.

This dude sounds like he has exactly 88. And if not, then its 56dd or 44.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:43 PM   #23
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

^thats my initial thoughts too, though I could be wrong, it's hard to understand the "type" of nit somebody is until you play with them.

Even if its not true, its absolutely crazy for everybody else itt to be so presumptuous as to assume he just always has 9's or T's here.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:04 AM   #24
11t
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

I folded a set once to a super nit who slow played AA preflop and shoveled in bets OTF.

Was a huge mistake.

I don't fold sets anymore, I'm calling here. Villain could easily have KK here.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:13 AM   #25
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Re: 5/10: bottom set, best play on turn ?

if we were 3k+ deep i could see merits in an exploitable fold but theres just no way im folding a set to this type of player who could easily do this with an overpair as well. Sure sets are in his range but so are top 2, and overpairs.
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