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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #16
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

C/r on the flop gets villain to continue all better hands plus draws and fold all worse so I'm not a fan. C/c flop.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:42 PM   #17
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In a vacuum yes, but you have to consider how the turn and river are going to play out, esp oop. Are you willing to c/c 300 and all-in on brick turn and river? Can you make a profitable call or fold when that happens?
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:52 PM   #18
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

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Originally Posted by bigoiltrader View Post
In a vacuum yes, but you have to consider how the turn and river are going to play out, esp oop. Are you willing to c/c 300 and all-in on brick turn and river? Can you make a profitable call or fold when that happens?
well hes not bluffing flop turn and river 100% of the time - alot of times he gives up OTT.....
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:12 PM   #19
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

yeah, the way you're painting this villian is as a SUPER maniac. The only way to play these guys is make hands and get paid and alter your commitment ranges, etc.

Seems like he'd be super profitable to just play ABC against and get tons of value out of made hands.

Seems like a bit of FPS to constantly get into high variance spots with him.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:24 PM   #20
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

really don't like c/r flop....the fact that you know he wont go for thin value on the river and the fact that you have 6 outs to an A or K makes flop and easy c/c, and you can probably c/c a lot of turns also. As played, I hate myself and shove.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:34 PM   #21
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

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yeah, the way you're painting this villian is as a SUPER maniac. The only way to play these guys is make hands and get paid and alter your commitment ranges, etc.

Seems like he'd be super profitable to just play ABC against and get tons of value out of made hands.

Seems like a bit of FPS to constantly get into high variance spots with him.
+1

I would c/c call
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:09 AM   #22
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

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really don't like c/r flop....the fact that you know he wont go for thin value on the river and the fact that you have 6 outs to an A or K makes flop and easy c/c, and you can probably c/c a lot of turns also. As played, I hate myself and shove.
+1

flop c/r is a bit of a mess but as played I'm jamming
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:27 PM   #23
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

hate the c/r. your read says he likes to float lots of flops to make bluffs on later streets. does cbet flop then c/c most turn rivers seem okay if his range is literally ATC? you said he would check down his A hi hands so we miss value on the flop by checking as he will call with his ace highs then potentially turn his sd bound hand into a bluff on the river and u can c/c. thoughts?
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:22 PM   #24
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

Why would you ever check raise the flop?

If he is as bluffy as you say, then his range post flop is made of a zillion combos of non ace / non pair hands. And if he bluffs with all of them, i check call flop.
I prolly have to check call turn too, but if i do it convincingly enough heshould shut down knowing that i am playing the "check call down" game with him exploiting him.

If he fires three then we have to really look at the bet size and his particular emotions at that moment and decide if it is value or bluff.

I think bet/bet works against us here as he is i guess a big floater / then bluffer etc, so I dont care for that. And if we dont have the stomach to call him down some here then just chck fold the flop. Yeah, thats weak, but if we are going to put money in the pot and then fold to a bluff later, we were better off just chk folding in the first place. He does have position, and does have ballz. This will make a missed AK very hard to play.

I would start by chk calling him down on this board though. If nothing else, Im gonna set the tone that he is NOT going to flat and float and run over me etc. Plus if he is a seating jockey, then i would seat jockey him as well.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:49 AM   #25
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hate the c/r. your read says he likes to float lots of flops to make bluffs on later streets. does cbet flop then c/c most turn rivers seem okay if his range is literally ATC? you said he would check down his A hi hands so we miss value on the flop by checking as he will call with his ace highs then potentially turn his sd bound hand into a bluff on the river and u can c/c. thoughts?
I like this. I also like using small bet sizing on the flop to make sure he folds 0% of his range. Might be a sicko and b/c turn c/c river to extract more money instead of calling him down after cbetting flop.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:02 AM   #26
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Check on the flop is to sometimes play showdown and give him the option to not get fuqqy with me for one hand. Raise is to push him off a potential 24-28% equity that he's in control of and also avoid a bad situation on the turn where I'm oop and don't know if he's going to shut down (bc he picks up on the "check-call him down" game like AintNoLimit said) or barrel again 100% on a blank turn. For everyone that likes c/c on the flop are you willing to call down for his 1.3k starting stack? If not then we're better off check-folding the flop bc we almost never win or get in a spot to make good decisions later in the hand. That's how you lol "wait for a better spot."

Last edited by bigoiltrader; 05-19-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:53 AM   #27
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

Raise more or not at all pre. C/r flop is wtf.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:54 AM   #28
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Ok, since you refuse to lay a hand down against this guy. Im going to give what you came here for.

Bet flop.

Check turn.

JAM
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:06 AM   #29
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Everyone c/c'ing KJ too right?

Yes I don't like folding hands. If you need someone to pay you off, I'm your guy every time.

Last edited by bigoiltrader; 05-19-2012 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:35 AM   #30
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Re: 5-10 bluff wars 3.0. I hate AK!

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Originally Posted by bigoiltrader View Post
Check on the flop is to sometimes play showdown and give him the option to not get fuqqy with me for one hand. Raise is to push him off a potential 24-28% equity that he's in control of and also avoid a bad situation on the turn where I'm oop and don't know if he's going to shut down (bc he picks up on the "check-call him down" game like AintNoLimit said) or barrel again 100% on a blank turn. For everyone that likes c/c on the flop are you willing to call down for his 1.3k starting stack? If not then we're better off check-folding the flop bc we almost never win or get in a spot to make good decisions later in the hand. That's how you lol "wait for a better spot."
dont know why you think if you c/c flop you need to c/c turn and river or that if hes bluffing hes bluffing all 3 streets 100% of the time.....each street has no relation to the previous meaning his bluffing frequencies on the turn and river aren't as high as the flop.......Id prob plan on calling nearly every turn and make a decision on the river, but you dont just auto c/c your stack off 3 streets....c/c flop and turn isn't much more expensive then your c/r, and you get two streets of money from him where as if hes folding bluffs otf to your c/r, you only get 100
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