Dear both

I suck at playing AK - cannot win without 2 barrels when I dont win.

Background information: Hero played with vilain few times, hero is not considered as total donk, but can be loose sometimes.

Vilain 1 did some plays and some bluffs on which he got caught - or not. He seems to stab when he feels weakness.
globally seems LAG player, he might however target the wrong person sometimes (me)


Hand history:

Hand 1
2-3 limpers, Hero raises to 60 in MP with JJ,
vilain calls in SB, 2 limpers call,

pot approx 240, flop KK7r
check to hero, I bet 90

vilain calls, others fold

pot is 420, turn 9r, check check

river 7, putting a board KK797,
vilain quickly bets 210, hero tank calls and vilain 1 mucks, while hero mucked (they think I called with A high -> here I put him on 66 -> I dunno whether I could have called with Q high??????)


Hand 2
hero not against vilain but let s say against a V2,

familly pot probably 55 in pot, limped, hero has Kd6d OTB
flop 8d2d6c

check to HJ who bets 40, hero raises to 120, fold to HJ who calls

pot is 295, turn 4x, HJ checks, hero bets 170 , called by HJ

HJ quite likes calling when he has a hand so river is 5x and it went x/x, HJ wins with 45o for 2 pairs...
Hero did not show



OTTH Actual hand
hand 3,

3/4 limpers, hero in Low jack raises to 20 (mistake i wanted to grab a 50 and a 10 chip... whatever...), with AKs
vilain 1 from the JJ hand 3bet to 80
we are 1700 deep effective, dont want to commit here.

fold to hero who calls

pot is approx 195
flop AhQh4c

hero checks, V1 bets 100,
hero calls

pot is 395,

turn Kr,
hero checke, V1 bets 170, Hero calls (thoughts?)

pot is 735
river 7h,

hero bets 230 (?)

thoughts on this hand??

Did we pot control well vs KK/QQ/AA/TJ/KhTh/KhJh or did we miss value vs AQ/KQ/AJ/AT?

How often is Hero expected to show up with a flush here ... at this bet sizing? I do my fair share of donk/blocker betting but I think I'm strong enough here to c/c a larger bet but maybe not a raise?

Similar to other hands posted this week .. I think you need to get your 'River' value on the Turn with a raise. Why is V only betting 40% of pot on Turn? To get calls or create implied value? I would think that both a flush draw and a made hand might bet higher on the Turn. What are V tendencies when made v draw? Why not let him 'stab' on the River as well once the flush comes through and you tank check?

Pretty thin value on River ... I think you are beat or taken off your hand via raise more often than just c/c the River would produce in value. GL

4b ak

@answer20:
I dunno what are his tendencies when he made the draw.
However,
- AP: OTR I dont expect him to call a big bet (hence i dont bet big). I think he would check most river (scary board, except he has exactly KQ or AQ or thin value.. and I dont want him to thin value QQ/TJ)
I think if I check, the bottom of his betting range might be AQ (and very rarely KQ)

- Turn, pot is 395, he bets 170, a proper raise should be 500, it would bring a pot of 1395 leaving me with 1K behind - then still bet fold half of my stack size river on a diamond??? and I am not sure of my game plan with a J or T putting a 4 straight (obviously a T is more scary than a J) - that is why I prefered pot control.
thoughts?

How do you read Vilain OTT? AQ?/KQ? I see his bet as building pot for river bet but "keep me in the pot for sure with any A or draw)

@lolposting2016: I might be result oriented but lately I do not do well with AK oops 4bet pot - my range is capped with a 4bet oop (???) - I didnt want to build a big pot leaving myself with 2.9 PSB. (a proper 4bet would be 2k5 )

AP .. OTR ... Is a showdown really that bad? Are you betting for thin value or as a blocker? I don't really want to do either unless I think I can get him to call with additional weaker hands like AJ. Is he really going to bet JT when the flush hits? I agree it's a fine line for us to decide how he handles AQ on the River.

I think we need to consider how 'more' often does he just call our River bet when he's ahead against how often we are going to b/f and lose the donk bet to the unknown. You may think he's just calling with all his non-flush 'made' hands (and maybe some non-nut flushes) whereas he will just check when he's beat and possibly bet bigger with 'any' made hands that we end up c/c into.

If we are committed to c/c a lot of River bets AP then it's probably better to donk/block since he ends up not raising a lot of hands that he would bet bigger with if checked to ... so we end up losing less but maybe winning more against his 2 pair hands. Interesting spot.

AP .. OTT .. I see that stacks are a bit short if you raise here but I feel very comfortable that we have the best hand and should try to take it down or charge an extra price to draw. Once the flush hits the River I'm not b/f here .. I may c/f or c/c but I got my 'value' with my Turn raise and am happy to go to showdown if I can get there.

As you indicate ... lots of Rivers stink, being Q, J, T and flush cards so I would rather just end the hand by raising or make sure he paid extra to take the lead. I'm not so sure he is ever shoving the River with a worse hand than ours ... we just need to be careful that we don't show off too much disappointment that the flush hit. GL

I like pre after the missclick, 4betting is an option, but I think that we have to be able to bluff of our 170bb stack with AK, if we 4bet it OOP. I rather flat the 3bet.

as played:

flop c/c is standard
turn c/c is okish, but I like a raise to 590 better
river 1/4 pot lead/fold is good but checking isn`t too bad either.

Probably check flop in hand 1

Probably check turn in hand 2. Honestly though you're still value betting alot of the time so it's fine I guess.

Probably 4b AK all day in hand 3. You really need initiative with AK specifically and even more so oop bc 66% of the time you flop A high and the other times when you actually flop something it's hard to extract value.

Basically try to call less in poker.

I wrote hand 1 and 2 to show how I should be perceived.
But totally agree with you on both play , hand 1 we are wa/wb and only A/Q make a biggest pair, hand 2 need to check especially I know V2 perceives me as someone who can 2/3 barrels with draws and tend to call..

regarding actual hand hand3, yes I gonna flop most of time A high and difficult to extract value when A/K high flop especially A high... and usually in WA/WB situation... I agree with you to be aggro , barrel with AK - but then I dont understand something, in this case we should be able to play Any2 as if we had AK (and considering we play AK as if we hand premium pair... so Any2 as premium pair?) beside we have Blockers for AA/KK/AK/KQ/AQ/Axs hands??

i agree to be aggro but i still cant understand difference between AK and Any2 ? is it only the fact we have A and K blockers??

If I 4bet eg 270 preflop, we are putting 270 to win 140 and we might have RIO on A/K high flop and difficult to extract value?

again i m really weak at playing AK please help to clarify

Mandatory 4bet especially given your accidental small sizing

The decision to 4b is not a pot odds problem. U can say the same thing about AA and having RIO on QJT flop.

There are several reasons to 4bet in this spot:
--You have a significant equity advantage vs his range
--You can play this hand better OOP by repping more overpairs on low card flops (this is what some people mean by "initiative")
--Plays very well postflop... can barrel spades, QT/QJ boards, and can extract a lot of value with TPTK
--It's good to have hands in your value 4bet range besides AA/KK

To your point about doing this with any two cards... no because "any two" does not push an equity edge against villains range, may not have good blocker effects, may not have playability postflop, and if you 4bet any two you will be 4bet bluffing way too often and people will catch onto that and destroy you

That said you should have some bluffs in your 4bet range (and AKss is not a bluff). There is a mathematical way to derive how many bluffs to include which is detailed in a couple poker books.

of course we are ahead seeing 5 cards mathematically vs 95% of hands.

ok for blocker effect. Besides, Position disavantage can be very penalizing tho... as I can flop less straight draw than most connectors, most of the time I can be barreling with Air, hence I still dont understand why making whole thing a math problem: engaging so much preflopin Live Poker isnt it a high variance play? to be honest 15bb (what actually in pot before I call preflop) is easy to get on any thin value river in live poker where You Bet knowing You are ahead and no more cards to come?

Level it this way: he 3bet to 80 knowing my misbet: so he should be strong most times?

I see often ppls with aggro image barreling AK and getting called down 2 barrels with someone who flopped one pair - I myself call some 2/3 barrels sometimes.. that is why I am scared to 2/3 barrels