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Old 02-28-2012, 09:58 AM   #126
DGAF
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by jungy121 View Post
I know we havnt played too much together in a while but, tht time I refused to do a group straddle was the last time I did that. I took what you had to say into consideration and now "take one for the team".

About sitting deep the last few times we played, I really played like a huge pussy when you were at the table raise/folding everything except AA paying the "dgaf tax". I should have left once you came cause I started to play really bad and i feel like the other players at the table started to notice. I have a huge amount of respect for you and didn't want to play a pot oop, but oh well, lesson learned.

When we played I know I havnt done anything special or cool, but I havnt been beating these games waiting for suited aces. I just play super abcdefg when you're around lol.
I know man. I was just ****ing around. You have plenty of game/are not an aces miner at all IMO. Glad you are crushing...
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #127
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Great thread. Absolutely made my day and was a great read/ substitue for studying for the last 2 hours. Great insight into live poker and live advice.

My favorite part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
[B]
I landed the girl I had always wanted growing
any story that you can (are willing to) tell behind that?

On poker-topic:

1.Why are Mid/High-stakes live Pokerpros playing the Major MTTs? The Variance must be enourmous and it seems like the edge is somewhat little compared to the traveling/living on the road requirements that you have to bring to the table as well.

2.Did you ever think about playing MTTs for a living?

3.How much would one big MTT score (Final Table appearance @ the ME) with the following Sponsorships etc change your ability to create games/get into juicy games? The way you describe yourself makes me believe that you would have fitted well into the TV poker scene.

4. What would you have done if you got lucky one year @ the ME? Move away from the game or go big because of the window of opportunity?

regards
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:56 PM   #128
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
I know man. I was just ****ing around. You have plenty of game/are not an aces miner at all IMO. Glad you are crushing...
haha well depending on the line up i kinda am. not crushing, just gettin by =p. i had my worst month ever in jan so i got a taste of run/play bad. in all honesty, i'm kind of glad it happened cause it really put me back in line.

dgaf knows what he's talking about. variance in live poker can really fool someone into thinking they're better than they are/worse than they arn't. does that make sense?
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:07 PM   #129
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
4. I have a list of live tells, but I'm saving them for a possible book . I will give you one pretty reliable one though. If someone is all in and while you are tanking, they take a sip of their drink- they ****ing have it (unless of course they are leveling).
I added this to my get-em-to-fold reverse tell repertoire. Thanks guys. This thread is already worth $100 to me.
Current record: 1-0


This thread is also making me rethink my non-playing actions while at a table.

DGAF; when/how do you know that someone will put em down? Esp after they've called a 3/4pot c-bet?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:41 PM   #130
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I really really need to focus on not saying anything regarding poker at the table
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:32 AM   #131
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by chilidog0425 View Post
Ice is playing NL again? Last few times I've seen him he was playing 8-16 lhe etc.
Ice plays whatever is hot, wherever it's hot ...

(chili- this next part is not directed at you at all. Your post just sparked a tangent that I thought was worth composing. I know you are not a hater/ill-wisher in the slightest...)

If you hang around casinos long enough, you will see hotshots come and go every 6 months to like 3 years max. Each one of them, if they got pumped up from live poker, ran WAY above expectation on the way up... Inevitably though, pretty much everyone cools off, and not only do they have to try to learn to earn without cold-decking the fish for stacks once a session, but they also start facing some real adversity when they actually start running below expectation . Most can't handle this part of the ride (either their game isn't strong enough to keep them afloat, or psychologically it's just too much)...

The people you do actually see at the casinos still grinding away 3+ years later are outliers obv. Either they are tough AND good enough to beat the game long-term (and they have good enough money management skills to weather the storm/downswings), or they are absolutely amazing at hustling/getting people to stake them, and because of that they are constantly in action (you also have your few donkament guys who binked so hard at the right time that they will be in action for as long as they don't go too crazy, those whose heaters are just excessively long, as well as those who have other streams of income- they all will be around 3+ years).

Most of the battle tested survivors (not all obv) play a pretty TAG style. They respect variance plenty and try to keep theirs to a minimum. Also, more notably (as it relates to this reply/tangent), you will see almost every one of these guys/girls (even the ones who play the best and the biggest) playing low stakes or short-stacked on occasion. Not only do they go through downswings that shrink their roll and force them to move down temporarily, but they also have real life financial obligations/leaks that take large chunks out of their rolls from time to time...

The best/smartest players will also play smaller or shorter for reasons unrelated to br. They will do it if the game is better/more profitable than their normal game for whatever reason--> they don't let ego get in the way. They also do it when they are working on something in their game or just need to get their confidence up after a break or a downswing or whatever. These are the realest of pros IMO, the ones I easily have the most respect for.

I try very hard not to speculate or derive any satisfaction when I see someone playing significantly smaller/shorter than they used to- I think it's kind of a natural human reaction to want to though a little in the name of insecurity, jealousy, whatever...

There are a few guys who grind the 400 and 500 5-10's in la who used to play sky high AND they are solid, thinking, winning players. For whatever reason though (most likely one of the reasons I listed above) they are playing much smaller/shorter than they used to. I not only don't look down on them or revel at all in their apparent plight, but I also constantly question if they know something I don't, and if the games they are sitting in are actually better/more profitable than the ones I'm sitting in (when I'm playing higher). Maybe I'm the idiot sometimes, playing poker for the wrong reasons/for any reason that isn't to make as much money as possible while in a good environment.

Ice man is obv a different story and more of a hustler than a winning player, but hey, he's been around and in action for a very long time, and there is absolutely zero shame in his game (he will play as low as he needs). He's an easy target for a lot of reasons (and he gets pretty much murdered on 2p2) but on some level I think he deserves at least a little respect for his resiliency/longevity.

(otoh, I agree with Bo and wish he would actually play a hand every few orbits, or at least be at the table to keep everyone entertained )

Tangent/
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:07 AM   #132
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by udo lattek View Post
Great thread. Absolutely made my day and was a great read/ substitue for studying for the last 2 hours. Great insight into live poker and live advice.

My favorite part:



any story that you can (are willing to) tell behind that?

On poker-topic:

1.Why are Mid/High-stakes live Pokerpros playing the Major MTTs? The Variance must be enourmous and it seems like the edge is somewhat little compared to the traveling/living on the road requirements that you have to bring to the table as well.

2.Did you ever think about playing MTTs for a living?

3.How much would one big MTT score (Final Table appearance @ the ME) with the following Sponsorships etc change your ability to create games/get into juicy games? The way you describe yourself makes me believe that you would have fitted well into the TV poker scene.

4. What would you have done if you got lucky one year @ the ME? Move away from the game or go big because of the window of opportunity?

regards
Thx for the kind words. As far as how I hooked up with my wife, it goes like this: we grew up near each other but always went to different schools and had different circles of friends. Me, being the super deep and complex person that I am, always loved her based on her looks/smile alone . I always did well with girls growing up, but consistently struck out with her at parties or whatever, mainly because I was always going 100 miles an hour trying to get the most out of life/the party, and she was more chill. I also used to get kind of nervous around her (I'm rarely nervous around any girl/person) and prob butchered my first several attempts to hook up ...

Then after I returned to sd after my state fairs gig, I was kind of on a girl heater and at a bar one night with this 9 sitting on my lap/kind of hanging all over me. My wife (to be) walked in and was hanging out with one of her friends, kind of away from the action. Then while the 9 was off on a bathroom break or whatever, I just pretty much walked up to her (my wife to be) and killed it- I'm not going to relay exactly what I said. We left together (i never even said bye to the 9) and we have been together ever since.

(hiyah, that's about as much of my real private life as I want to get into/I'm prob done discussing it on here now- hope that's cool)

---

1. Why does anyone play live high stakes mtt's? Seriously, it's unbeatable given edge available and rake and expenses. Having said that, I have some ballin out of control luckbox friends/acquaintances who think otherwise. I pretty much just buy pieces now for the gamble/sweat of it...

2. Maybe for like a minute.

3. My friends who have binked get to play in the biggest, softest games. The rich get richer... I really enjoy being unknown/not famous, but if I smashed the wsop me or something, I would have to go with it obv. And yeah, I think it would be excellent for poker if someone with charisma/charm/whatever became the new face/spokesperson. I actually think Durrr would be ideal. I have played with him a few times and think he has mad talent AND really "gets it".

4. I would capitalize financially for a while and try to be a good ambassador. I sure as hell would grind/work on my game a lot less though lol.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:15 AM   #133
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskk View Post
I added this to my get-em-to-fold reverse tell repertoire. Thanks guys. This thread is already worth $100 to me.
Current record: 1-0


This thread is also making me rethink my non-playing actions while at a table.

DGAF; when/how do you know that someone will put em down? Esp after they've called a 3/4pot c-bet?
Maskk- years and years of spewing is the only way to get really good at knowing people's stack off thresholds/if and when they will fold. Game flow, image and board texture is the simple answer though. And I rarely fire two big barrels, unless stacks are really deep. I prefer to just go small then big, or just a one time bomb. People are folding less and less these days though, and I'm really only bluffing really good players and nits now, using blocker technology and meta.

Hope you a running good.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:20 PM   #134
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
Maskk- years and years of spewing is the only way to get really good at knowing people's stack off thresholds/if and when they will fold. Game flow, image and board texture is the simple answer though. And I rarely fire two big barrels, unless stacks are really deep. I prefer to just go small then big, or just a one time bomb. People are folding less and less these days though, and I'm really only bluffing really good players and nits now, using blocker technology and meta.

Hope you a running good.
Running alright; between grad-school and my recent engagement, I shut down poker last fall; tossed my role into life expenses, and studied / hung out with my fiance (who lives in another city).

But no poker at all, I just can't handle :P. So I'm back rebuilding the roll at 1/3... Already have a few 1/3 BI in winnings, after ~40 hours. A buddy asked me on day 2 of this new ride why I wasn't playing 5/10 (when a decent one was running); I was thinking: "dude, my whole 'role' fits in my pocket right now, and it isn't even a BI" instead I said something else.

On the bright side, I've got a 100K salary + Benefits and Bonus waiting for me when I graduate. That was the whole point of this degree afterall. When I read your thread and see that a starting sal in finance = top 5% cash players in Vegas, it validated the course I'd chosen.

So for me, poker right now is about getting a bankroll set aside so I never have to explain to my future wife why I need to withdraw 1K+ to walk into a casino
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:19 PM   #135
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I played a really long session last night and didn't sleep too much so my brain isn't working well enough to answer these questions specifically, but I will give you my general bluffing thoughts.

I bluff most vs people who don't know me. I recognize bet/fold spots very well and when someone (who doesn't know I'm a blufftard) bets in one of them, I almost always pounce regardless of my holding. In general though, I like to have some equity when I bluff, like bottom pair or gutshot or whatever. I also bluff relentlessly when I'm running good (people get afraid of my heater). Preflop I love to have an A in my hand.

Regarding streets, if we are deep, I will often bluff flop small for value and then send in the grenades on the turn. Or I will one time it big on the flop. If stacks are normal, the turn bluff seems to have the most fe, and I love putting people in spots where they have to either go all in or fold due to awkward stack sizes (see this discussion in sknights's 3-barrel thread). This is just incredibly profitable no matter what they do.

I rarely bluff rivers (people never fold), but I will if I think someone is good/not a station. I will also bluff amazing scare cards. Lastly, I will send in small value bet looking bluffs on the river if I have air and I want to fold out a missed draw that likely has me beat (fml I'm in this situation too much!).

Last thing on bluffing, it's really all about what you are repping and what they are repping. If you can have it based on board texture and they cannot, you deserve to win IMO. Image is obv very important as well, and if I had your image (sarganaga's) I'd be stealing at least one big bloated pot a day .

***Oh yeah, no1 likes to go broke in a limped pot, so I like bluffing the hell out of those.
Heard bart comment on this post on one of his podcast. You make some great points in this post.
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:47 PM   #136
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
Ice plays whatever is hot, wherever it's hot ...

(chili- this next part is not directed at you at all. Your post just sparked a tangent that I thought was worth composing. I know you are not a hater/ill-wisher in the slightest...)

If you hang around casinos long enough, you will see hotshots come and go every 6 months to like 3 years max. Each one of them, if they got pumped up from live poker, ran WAY above expectation on the way up... Inevitably though, pretty much everyone cools off, and not only do they have to try to learn to earn without cold-decking the fish for stacks once a session, but they also start facing some real adversity when they actually start running below expectation . Most can't handle this part of the ride (either their game isn't strong enough to keep them afloat, or psychologically it's just too much)...

The people you do actually see at the casinos still grinding away 3+ years later are outliers obv. Either they are tough AND good enough to beat the game long-term (and they have good enough money management skills to weather the storm/downswings), or they are absolutely amazing at hustling/getting people to stake them, and because of that they are constantly in action (you also have your few donkament guys who binked so hard at the right time that they will be in action for as long as they don't go too crazy, those whose heaters are just excessively long, as well as those who have other streams of income- they all will be around 3+ years).

Most of the battle tested survivors (not all obv) play a pretty TAG style. They respect variance plenty and try to keep theirs to a minimum. Also, more notably (as it relates to this reply/tangent), you will see almost every one of these guys/girls (even the ones who play the best and the biggest) playing low stakes or short-stacked on occasion. Not only do they go through downswings that shrink their roll and force them to move down temporarily, but they also have real life financial obligations/leaks that take large chunks out of their rolls from time to time...

The best/smartest players will also play smaller or shorter for reasons unrelated to br. They will do it if the game is better/more profitable than their normal game for whatever reason--> they don't let ego get in the way. They also do it when they are working on something in their game or just need to get their confidence up after a break or a downswing or whatever. These are the realest of pros IMO, the ones I easily have the most respect for.

I try very hard not to speculate or derive any satisfaction when I see someone playing significantly smaller/shorter than they used to- I think it's kind of a natural human reaction to want to though a little in the name of insecurity, jealousy, whatever...

There are a few guys who grind the 400 and 500 5-10's in la who used to play sky high AND they are solid, thinking, winning players. For whatever reason though (most likely one of the reasons I listed above) they are playing much smaller/shorter than they used to. I not only don't look down on them or revel at all in their apparent plight, but I also constantly question if they know something I don't, and if the games they are sitting in are actually better/more profitable than the ones I'm sitting in (when I'm playing higher). Maybe I'm the idiot sometimes, playing poker for the wrong reasons/for any reason that isn't to make as much money as possible while in a good environment.

Ice man is obv a different story and more of a hustler than a winning player, but hey, he's been around and in action for a very long time, and there is absolutely zero shame in his game (he will play as low as he needs). He's an easy target for a lot of reasons (and he gets pretty much murdered on 2p2) but on some level I think he deserves at least a little respect for his resiliency/longevity.

(otoh, I agree with Bo and wish he would actually play a hand every few orbits, or at least be at the table to keep everyone entertained )

Tangent/
amazing
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:52 AM   #137
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

three things that really are dead on in the op

1)be nice to fish its a social game live and a much different skillset
2)After trying to make Bellagio my go to spot and being completely disgusted with how I was treated there
**** the bellagio
3)dont pay off nits
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #138
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I've been away from 2p2 for months and just searched your name to try to get my limon-like fix and found this awesome thread. Thanks for all the great posts while you were here, and GL
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:56 PM   #139
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Just read the whole thing. Great story and good luck to you.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:01 AM   #140
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I'll preface with a tremendous thank you for one of, if not the best, threads in a long while. I'll proceed with caution cause this one question I have could come off with a tone of sarcasm if I am not careful.

You mentioned that your games of choice are mid stakes, 5/10, 10/20, and 10/20/40 etc. you also mentioned, game selection is practiced, and we got the fact that your preferred style is aggressive and on the lag side. Finally with that said, you have stated that your current win rate is approx 100k or so per annum.

Here's the careful part:
Is there not a less stressful and/or less variant way to attain that same win rate, or did I screw up any or all of these facts, or are you being intentionally "misleading"?

We have discussed win rates to death on this forum, and many of us compare with friends. The facts you have supplied seem like I misunderstood something.

Thanks, in advance, DGAF.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:41 AM   #141
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

[QUOTE=DGAF;31590629] The richest (not necessarily the best) poker players I know quit the moment they know it's "not their day."
QUOTE]

I need to print this out and put a copy in my wallet.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:31 PM   #142
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I know this is super random...but are you in Northern California at all? I played with somebody twice this week who fits your description EXACTLY...its kind of scary how much this guy I played with was QUITE similar to how you describe yourself.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:36 PM   #143
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by StandardDeviate View Post
I'll preface with a tremendous thank you for one of, if not the best, threads in a long while. I'll proceed with caution cause this one question I have could come off with a tone of sarcasm if I am not careful.

You mentioned that your games of choice are mid stakes, 5/10, 10/20, and 10/20/40 etc. you also mentioned, game selection is practiced, and we got the fact that your preferred style is aggressive and on the lag side. Finally with that said, you have stated that your current win rate is approx 100k or so per annum.

Here's the careful part:
Is there not a less stressful and/or less variant way to attain that same win rate, or did I screw up any or all of these facts, or are you being intentionally "misleading"?

We have discussed win rates to death on this forum, and many of us compare with friends. The facts you have supplied seem like I misunderstood something.

Thanks, in advance, DGAF.
I'll take this on in parts...

1. I think it's cool you went out of your way to not come off sarcastic or disrespectful or whatever. That is pretty rare (especially on the internet) and it says a lot about you I think...

2. Wrt what games I prefer to play in- I really only play deepstacked (150 bb+) nlhe nowadays. I play 5-10 usually, and 10-20 when it is especially good or if it's short and decent. But i don't really prefer any stakes over any other stakes. I just try to always play in the most profitable/non risk of ruin games available based on where I live and where I can commute to- always factoring in the status of my roll and my real life expenses.

Note: I've got a family and a ton of financial responsibility (plus some standard degen leaks) so I can't really relocate or shot take too hard like someone younger/less tied down can. And... bigger games rarely go these days anyways.

3. Wrt style- I'd like to think that I finally don't have one, and that I'm now constantly adjusting to changing game conditions in an attempt to play optimally... In order to maximize earn though, and to generate a steady flow of income, I think in general you need to be seeing a bunch of flops in position, manufacturing small to medium pots, and getting paid off in full every time you make anything that resembles hand over hand. So I go to pretty great lengths to play in loose, passive games where I can really play LAG.

TAG play works too obv, but it if you are a good reader and creative, as well as fundamentally sound- I think you are probably selling yourself short playing too snug in soft games. For sure though, it is wayyyyy less stressful than taking a bunch of flops holding cheese and always needing to improve or bluff to win.

4. I never said what my current winrate is. I've intentionally been pretty vague (perhaps even misleading) forever on here in an attempt to maintain a decent level of privacy and anonymity. Having said all that, I believe my statement was, "the very best players can expect to make 100k/year running even." Taking a real objective and close look at game conditions, edge available, VARIANCE, etc, I stand by that figure as a rough estimate.

Note: I can't state enough how trained an eye and how objective an outlook it takes imho to really contribute to the winrate discussion. But if you could somehow take all the expert live 5-10 and 10-20 pros in the world and tally their actual results for the next 12 months, I'd bet on the average income being right around 100k.

I assume you and your friends think it's higher than 100k?
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:46 PM   #144
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I know this is super random...but are you in Northern California at all? I played with somebody twice this week who fits your description EXACTLY...its kind of scary how much this guy I played with was QUITE similar to how you describe yourself.
Nah, I've only played up there once like 3 years ago, at whichever casino is a $100 drunk cab ride from San Francisco...

Also, no offense to anyone, but I really have no interested in being outed beyond the people who already know me and make my life miserable by always pot controlling and never folding anything against me once engaged.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:34 PM   #145
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
I'll take this on in parts...

1. I think it's cool you went out of your way to not come off sarcastic or disrespectful or whatever. That is pretty rare (especially on the internet) and it says a lot about you I think...

2. Wrt what games I prefer to play in- I really only play deepstacked (150 bb+) nlhe nowadays. I play 5-10 usually, and 10-20 when it is especially good or if it's short and decent. But i don't really prefer any stakes over any other stakes. I just try to always play in the most profitable/non risk of ruin games available based on where I live and where I can commute to- always factoring in the status of my roll and my real life expenses.

Note: I've got a family and a ton of financial responsibility (plus some standard degen leaks) so I can't really relocate or shot take too hard like someone younger/less tied down can. And... bigger games rarely go these days anyways.

3. Wrt style- I'd like to think that I finally don't have one, and that I'm now constantly adjusting to changing game conditions in an attempt to play optimally... In order to maximize earn though, and to generate a steady flow of income, I think in general you need to be seeing a bunch of flops in position, manufacturing small to medium pots, and getting paid off in full every time you make anything that resembles hand over hand. So I go to pretty great lengths to play in loose, passive games where I can really play LAG.

TAG play works too obv, but it if you are a good reader and creative, as well as fundamentally sound- I think you are probably selling yourself short playing too snug in soft games. For sure though, it is wayyyyy less stressful than taking a bunch of flops holding cheese and always needing to improve or bluff to win.

4. I never said what my current winrate is. I've intentionally been pretty vague (perhaps even misleading) forever on here in an attempt to maintain a decent level of privacy and anonymity. Having said all that, I believe my statement was, "the very best players can expect to make 100k/year running even." Taking a real objective and close look at game conditions, edge available, VARIANCE, etc, I stand by that figure as a rough estimate.

Note: I can't state enough how trained an eye and how objective an outlook it takes imho to really contribute to the winrate discussion. But if you could somehow take all the expert live 5-10 and 10-20 pros in the world and tally their actual results for the next 12 months, I'd bet on the average income being right around 100k.

I assume you and your friends think it's higher than 100k?
This sentence is the truth. It's kind an ironic evolution though.
As an aside, what do you think about the future of lhe? With a lot of rec. players wising up and shortstacking/tightening up in capped nl games I wonder why they don't just play mid stakes limit. They can play more hands, average pot is bigger, risk of ruin in any one hand is minimal, etc. Obviously ESPN made rec. players want to play nl, but now it seems like that has run it's course and the novelty has worn off for the general public, leaving the hardcore gambler as the typical fish. I can't imagine it's fun to shortstack nl if you're a degen but don't feel like losing 5 buyins every other session.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:19 AM   #146
AintNoLimit
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

[QUOTE=DGAF;31825234]Ice plays whatever is hot, wherever it's hot ...

(chili- this next part is not directed at you at all. Your post just sparked a tangent that I thought was worth composing. I know you are not a hater/ill-wisher in the slightest...)

If you hang around casinos long enough, you will see hotshots come and go every 6 months to like 3 years max. Each one of them, if they got pumped up from live poker, ran WAY above expectation on the way up... Inevitably though, pretty much everyone cools off, and not only do they have to try to learn to earn without cold-decking the fish for stacks once a session, but they also start facing some real adversity when they actually start running below expectation . Most can't handle this part of the ride (either their game isn't strong enough to keep them afloat, or psychologically it's just too much)...

The people you do actually see at the casinos still grinding away 3+ years later are outliers obv. Either they are tough AND good enough to beat the game long-term (and they have good enough money management skills to weather the storm/downswings), or they are absolutely amazing at hustling/getting people to stake them, and because of that they are constantly in action (you also have your few donkament guys who binked so hard at the right time that they will be in action for as long as they don't go too crazy, those whose heaters are just excessively long, as well as those who have other streams of income- they all will be around 3+ years).

Most of the battle tested survivors (not all obv) play a pretty TAG style
. They respect variance plenty and try to keep theirs to a minimum. Also, more notably (as it relates to this reply/tangent), you will see almost every one of these guys/girls (even the ones who play the best and the biggest) playing low stakes or short-stacked on occasion. Not only do they go through downswings that shrink their roll and force them to move down temporarily, but they also have real life financial obligations/leaks that take large chunks out of their rolls from time to time...

The best/smartest players will also play smaller or shorter for reasons unrelated to br. They will do it if the game is better/more profitable than their normal game for whatever reason--> they don't let ego get in the way. They also do it when they are working on something in their game or just need to get their confidence up after a break or a downswing or whatever. These are the realest of pros IMO, the ones I easily have the most respect for.





The bold just nails it, and takes so long to really understand the reality of it that a great many players just dont have the time in to actually see all this unfold before their very own eyes. (At live poker anyways)
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:10 AM   #147
StandardDeviate
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Thanks for the reply, and the kind words. I figured I misunderstood, and wanted to get clearification. My circle is small, tight and made up of seasoned veterans (some of who know you, and you them), and our winrate estimations are going to coincide.

I don't post much so I just want to tell you, once more, how appreciative I am for your generosity. I know from experience that it can and does affect playing situations (mostly for -EV.)

Your posts always had a familiar tone in them that was close to my own life and game. I too have many financial obligations (4-kids in private schools), and I too go way out of my way to make the table feel comfortable etc etc.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:23 PM   #148
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

danm this is a long ass story. might just have to read it
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:42 PM   #149
dankness3
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Great ****** post man. Glad I took the time to read it. This is one of the main reasons I go on this site, for the rare post like this that is inspirational and educational. Are you gonna be in Vegas this summer? I'd love to meet you in person.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:11 AM   #150
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

gl man
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