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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 02-18-2012, 01:26 AM   #46
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Read every word ITT. Great read. I wish you the best, DGAF. If online ever gets regulated, resist the temptation and stick to playing live, please. The last thing we need is another thinking SLAG/LAG.

Btw, you've inspired me to start posting in strat threads more often. Not only to give back but to improve my game as well.
Gl to you too. I look forward to lurking your strat posts. I think people are missing out if they don't pay close attention to what the smart, technical, internet guys are saying in live threads.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:31 AM   #47
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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cool thread again.

1) seeing opponents' hole cards. unethical or their live leaks? Assume they have no disabilities.

2) How much to tip? Why do you tip the amount you choose to. How about donkaments?

3) You are sitting in the 5 seat and seats 4 and 6 are open. A reg is about to move to your table. He's okay but not amazing. Do you move to either seat or stay put?

4) Thoughts on live tells? I have yet to spot really anything beyond general strength/weakness. I can't tell when someone is bluffing or hold the nuts.
1. Seeking out opponents hole cards seems unethical. Using the info they are putting right in your face doesn't. Either way, I don't want to see them. Life is too short, my vision is too poor lol, and somehow my mom managed to instill a super strong guilty conscious in me growing up- damn her.

Live poker can be really scummy and pros should be held to the highest standard IMO. There is always going to be temptation to do small things that may or may not be crossing the line. The other day I was buried, could not turn over the best hand for hours in a soft, short-handed game, and had some verbal sparring history with my opponent in a hand. I had KQ and the flop was Q73. We were deep and my image was perfect for over playing my hand. He was pfr with a wideish range and I donked into him for 1.5 pot. He called with what I was sure was a worse hand (live soul read lol). The turn was an A and I 2x'd pot, trying to look as bluffy as possible and only really losing to A7 or A3 (which I thought were pretty unlikely). He called. River was another 3 and I bombed again. He snapped, I showed my hand, he turned over a Q and mucked. He then quickly realized he had folded a chop and started pleading with me to chop the pot. For a second, I was almost like "Fu, learn to read the board", but then thought better of it and chopped the pot. That's the kind of stuff pros should do IMO (even though the rules say I get the pot) against fish for sure, and even against other pros. You don't want to ever start down that scummy path/you want to be a good ambassador for the game at all times.

Note: I know this question came from the limon thread. I know limon irl and he is a real pro. I believe that part of his masterpiece 2000 was misconstrued/over analyzed (sometimes haters just need something to hate on). Or maybe like the rest of us, he isn't perfect, idk. To me, he is clear cut 2p2 GOAT wrt live poker though, and his insights and his generosity with information had a HUGE influence on my development/willingness to post.

2. I tip 1-5 dollars per hand as long as there is a flop. If I win a bunch of hands in a row pre when I'm in Spewperman mode, I'll tip a buck there as well. My default is one dollar, more for better performance/personality. I don't think dealers should be involved in the table talk, but how they respond to stuff (especially with the fish) is important to me. I tip more than a buck if a hand takes a long time, and there is obv a social pressure to tip more in big pots (which is pretty silly in theory).

If a fish demands I tip more, I tip more. If a fish demands no1 tip the dealer for the rest of the down because the dealer got out of line, I'm firing air balls. The fish run the show.

3. If he's tight, he gets the seat on my left. If he's loose, he gets the seat on my right. Doesn't matter if he's good or not.

4. I have a list of live tells, but I'm saving them for a possible book . I will give you one pretty reliable one though. If someone is all in and while you are tanking, they take a sip of their drink- they ****ing have it (unless of course they are leveling).
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:36 AM   #48
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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So Cal or Vegas poker for the next three mths.

The only game I'm rolled for is 2/5 or 5/5 without backing. I'm finding i hard to find a game in LA that is 100 BB deep is Hollywood park. And that place makes me nervous, walking out with winnings.

Not that nervous though because I'm going there once traffic dies down
If you can move to Vegas, do it. The 2 5 games there are generally very soft (if you look for a good game) and the rake is way lower than la. If you are stuck in la, try the 300 at Hg. It can be pretty amazing.

Note: I won't publicly discuss venues for 5-10+ for obv reasons.
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:44 AM   #49
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Thanks for your take on the general bluffing thought process. It was more of the answer that I wanted than more specific answers to my questions would have been.

As for the your following observation, this seems to be the primary reason I manage to win from time to time. When you get older, you don't make as many hands. FYI, straight making ability is the first thing to go.
I never thought you were very good at making hands.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #50
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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4. I have a list of live tells, but I'm saving them for a possible book . I will give you one pretty reliable one though. If someone is all in and while you are tanking, they take a sip of their drink- they ****ing have it (unless of course they are leveling).
I've been studying this tell for ~2 yrs now (I call it "take a drink") so I'm glad you mentioned it.

Tho I'm still not sold on it. Last night some guy did it twice(to 2 different players) and once he had it/other time was on a draw. IMO the tell actually means "I'm comfortable". Good players are comfortable with the good hands and bad players are comfortable drawing. My default tho is they think they're ahead.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:08 PM   #51
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I've always thought that one of the roles of poker in my life has been to get out the aggressive/competitive side of my personality in a semi-socially sanctioned manner.

Toward this end, I have always hated playing with friends (or even friendly acquaintances)--because generally I want all my friends to prosper, and my goal in any poker game is exactly opposite to that--I want to beat/kill/destroy everybody (and make them cry go figure).

So. . .I was a little surprised at your comment that you like having friends at the table.

I definitely get that having friends at your table makes it more socially pleasant (the apparent increase in the degree of scumminess of some of the live players has actually been deterring me from playing lately), but how do you resolve this conflict??
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:26 PM   #52
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

How/when do you purposefully "switch gears"? It seems like from your threads you do not do this methodically very often if at all. As a rec fish/businessman, I find myself conscious and probably overconscious of this, especialy because I do not have one particular regular game. How much time at a table with randoms do you spend before you assume that any thinking players are picking up on you? Is it worth even worrying about with randoms?
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:44 PM   #53
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

what does someone do with this crazy chick after one date? http://imgur.com/a/r5kEb
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:53 PM   #54
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I've always thought that one of the roles of poker in my life has been to get out the aggressive/competitive side of my personality in a semi-socially sanctioned manner.

Toward this end, I have always hated playing with friends (or even friendly acquaintances)--because generally I want all my friends to prosper, and my goal in any poker game is exactly opposite to that--I want to beat/kill/destroy everybody (and make them cry go figure).

So. . .I was a little surprised at your comment that you like having friends at the table.

I definitely get that having friends at your table makes it more socially pleasant (the apparent increase in the degree of scumminess of some of the live players has actually been deterring me from playing lately), but how do you resolve this conflict??
You kind of stumped me on this one. I think maybe we play poker for very different reasons. I think you (and many good recreational players) play because you like the competition/challenge and the break from your normal life (awesome job, family, etc). And it's probably a very healthy outlet, as you mentioned.

I play poker as a job/only for money at this point. I don't want to crush anyone or make anyone cry. And I don't feel the need or desire to prove myself to anyone- I think only a tiny % of players (even pros) have a trained enough eye to really see and understand what is really going on anyways, separating variance/results from actual play... I just want to earn my hourly in the most enjoyable way possible and then get out of there and pay bills and hopefully add to my roll.

When I need an outlet or want to be competitive, I go play golf or bar games. Or I just go work out. I guess maybe the honeymoon is over for me and poker?

Idk, hopefully this reply sheds a little light. Like I said, you kind of stumped me on this one.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:03 PM   #55
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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what does someone do with this crazy chick after one date? http://imgur.com/a/r5kEb
Wow. Be careful man, and do not go ice skating!!!

Seriously, she needs help. You gotta nip that in the bud. Sad/scary/entertaining/wow.

GL

Last edited by DGAF; 02-18-2012 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:42 AM   #56
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Do you think a movie could be made just following teddy monroe and raymond davis around? (with a smattering of eskimo)
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:53 AM   #57
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Great story/great read.

Have always enjoyed your posts/threads. IIRC, your first ever thread was some f'd up 72 hand, never imagined the OP would become 1 of my favorite 2+2ers.

What kind of time do you put in at the tables? Does it avg out to > or < 40/hrs week?

Longest stretch you've gone w/o playing poker since you made it your job?

Ever come close to throwing down at the table?
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:12 AM   #58
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by IronedSheik View Post
How/when do you purposefully "switch gears"? It seems like from your threads you do not do this methodically very often if at all. As a rec fish/businessman, I find myself conscious and probably overconscious of this, especialy because I do not have one particular regular game. How much time at a table with randoms do you spend before you assume that any thinking players are picking up on you? Is it worth even worrying about with randoms?
I game select well now, so I don't have to switch gears too much based on opponents. However if a good lag (or just a brick wall) sits down on my left, I will tighten up pre quite a bit- especially in late position (he can't really do much when I open or 3bet in early or middle position because he has to worry about everyone after him). Last night I was in a mediocre 10 20, but I was kind of running it over and manufacturing a lot of pots. Then one of the best regs sat down on my direct left with a bunch of money and a good short-stacker sat down a couple seats to his left. I tightened up for an orbit or 2 and then just picked up and went to a soft 5 10 (when I got there I realized I should have been there the whole time ). I think that is the actual correct adjustment tbh.

In general though, I try to slow way down when my image is shot because of failed bluffs or coolers or whatever, and I absolutely slam my foot on the gas when I'm running good/have a winning image. My default though is to play a ton of pots in position, always raising or calling a raise (limped pots freak me out), and to fold almost everything oop. And if the game is just out of control with maniacal fish or whatever, I actually play pretty TIP, which looks and feels kinda funny, but I think is correct.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by DGAF; 02-19-2012 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:36 AM   #59
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Do you think a movie could be made just following teddy monroe and raymond davis around? (with a smattering of eskimo)
I had to google Raymond Davis. I recognized his pic but don't remember too much about him. I think Eskimo is too sad a story to really sell. Ice on the other hand...

Ice is my boy. He's truly a modern day hustler, and he would certainly be a good protagonist in a film IMO. I got to know him real well when he got 86'd from the B for the coin flipping as he immediately set up shop at the V, and I was there almost every day. He's a good game builder (he's aggressive with fish and they seem to like him), he has a generally positive disposition, and the **** he says and does just makes me laugh to no end. He's also a money borrowing expert, so be careful!
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:00 AM   #60
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Great story/great read.

Have always enjoyed your posts/threads. IIRC, your first ever thread was some f'd up 72 hand, never imagined the OP would become 1 of my favorite 2+2ers.

What kind of time do you put in at the tables? Does it avg out to > or < 40/hrs week?

Longest stretch you've gone w/o playing poker since you made it your job?

Ever come close to throwing down at the table?
I like your posts too, and I remember you owning a few threads in hsnl... That 72 thread was pretty lol, and I actually called the 2k river bet with 7 high and was wrong . That thread was a good lesson for me in not trying to communicate super complicated, deep, history driven spots to people who weren't at the table. I got absolutely torched in that one haha.

I used to play over 2k hours a year, so more than a full time job, now I play just under that, spending as much time as possible with my little girl.

I took 2 weeks off over new years this year. That's easily the longest I've gone since nl broke in '04. It felt amazing...

I'm not very confrontational, but I have been threatened a billion times by people who didn't like my fast play or occasional cockiness at the table. And it seems like things are just getting worse and worse, with so many people on edge and ready to explode. The higher you play, the less this is true obv.

The only person I ever almost came across the table at was muhaha in Vegas. There is a thread about him in hsnl if you don't know him. I can take his bull**** no prob, and have gone back and forth with him a million times, mainly exposing his awful play and lack of courage to the table, the dealers, the cocktail waitresses, the massage girls, the floor, anyone who will listen, etc, and he usually just calls me a broke girl and laughs at how unlucky I get in big pots. All that is fine, but one night he started talking about my family and it came real close to blows and we had to be separated. There may have been some alcohol involved, I'm not sure .

In general, I think adult fighting is pretty lol.
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