Couple of hands in 20/40 (10 ante) home game, pretty much same line.....both weirdly played by different V

Hand 1:

Hero HJ (4.9k)
V UTG (12k)
6 handed

V limp
H 173 with As Ad
SB Call
V Call

Flop 10h 4c 2h (619)

SB check
V check
Hero 309
V raise to 927
Hero call

Turn 8c (2.5k)

V jams
H has 3.9k behind to call

Hand 2:

H UTG+2 6.4k
V SB 12k (different V from hand 1, different tables)
8 handed

H open to 120 with Ah Kd
B call
V call

Flop 4d 3h kh (480)

V check
H 240
B fold
V raise to 850
H call

Turn 5s (2.2k)

V jams
H has 5.4k left to call


Both V are recreational players and play awful poker. Both V1 and V2 are rather tight passive but V2 is stuck a lot and has opened up his game a little.

Hand 2, while we don't like our Ah, we do have a gut shot. GTO wise, I'd imagine both are snap calls but in a super soft live game, will you consider folding?

Hand 1: Calling the big overbet but not thrilled about it. We have Aces and it certainly looks like overbetting a draw as a semi-bluff. If they play horrible, this could be JT, QT too, or random stuff too. Gotta call it off.

Hand 2: I'd consider folding turn. Probably shrug folding. Board is much more connected.

What's with these weird bet sizings? Did this game occur in your imaginary world? AA seems like a clear call on the turn, it's high enough in your range and it's even a bit better than JJ or QQ here because your opponent can have something like overcards + flushdraw and then their overcards aren't live either.

pgcounty:

My thoughts are pretty close with yours. Hand 1 is a call. We just lose to too little. I mean, if they have sets, they have sets. We don't even need good equity to call (like 37% or sth) and we are just good too often here. Like I said, these are bad players and slow played overpairs, A10, etc are in their ranges as well. Don't ask me why someone would limp KK or QQ UTG and then flat call. In my game, they just do.

Hand 2 is just gross. We need 40% to call and we are drawing really thin vs sets and totally dead vs a made gut shot. We block AAs but we also block flush draws. I figured if he called pre with a hand like 43 or k3, k4, we still have 25-30% equity to bink our card. There are probably better spots vs these type of players but a bad call loses a lot less EV than a bad fold in this spot imo.

pilliapina:

These hands happened. In the first hand, I just converted to USD. It is played in a different currency.

Hand 1- you could fold if villains not bluffing enough for him to exploit this. Especially if
You label him tight passiv so could be a fold- one of most important concepts of game theory imo is to be able to recognize the ideas of Exploitability. gto only matters imo vs players who have a balanced range. There's a lot of this stuff in mop. one of big benefits of live cash is you can just look at a couple of recs and see a few showdowns and make some solid reads on their strategy. There's some fishrec spewetards who you will be snapping so fast and others where it's gonna be better to lol and fold cuz they never bluff and exploit this by folding a hand that could be a call vs. but vs the population it's prolly a fold just cuZ imo when the vast majority stick this many bbs in they will probably be ahead of your perceived range which will have lots of overpairs

And also I think that while it's awesome to ship this pot when he's spazzing it's losing a lot off $ on your winrate to get stacked vs a set which he should have a bunch when he bets this big ott
Hand 2 just sucks as well and honestly if the villains in this game are playing such sick balanced overbettimg ranges for hella bbz then it's prolly time to find a new game cuz I go to play live poker cuz it's softer than the 25nl game on most online sites not cuz I wanna be facing decisions like the ones posted

Villains are definitely not merging their value hands into bluffs on these boards. I doubt they even understand the concept of playing balanced, let alone playing one.

The only problem with hand 1 is that how often will V have a set here. Unfortunately I have not played with either player enough to tell with confidence. Also, these fish sometimes play so unconventionally, it is difficult to assess their range. I mean, if V is shoving turn here praying for flush draws to fold, then he is likely to shove KK in this spot as well imo. Do we really not shove 3.8k into a 10k pot here? I don't often post but these hands are just baffling.

Luckily they don't often jam in these spots. I just happened to bump into two such spots in one day.....weird.

I don't think you've given us enough info on villains to give you a good answer.

I honestly wish you would post less

I don't know the villains either. The decision would be so much easier if I had any history with them.

But Hand 1 V had a set of 10s

And hand 2 V showed K 3 for two pairs, lol

They scooped both obv. While I am still a big winner overall at this game, over the past few days, I have ran set into set twice and lost with set sixes against a turned gut shot just now for another buy-in

lolvariance.....

Tight/passives are gonna have it here more often than not I think. Things you might ask yourself or try to post in the thread include:

-Preflop ranges for all players (including yourself, though this is less relevant against weaker players.)
-Your best guess at villains' flop raising range.
-Any instances of villains overplaying made hands in big pots.

If losing three buyins qualifies as 'lolvariance', you're gonna have some rough times ahead.

Right, this is actually the big one in live poker and I never see it talked about. Like ~<5/10 you just never see bluffs in these spots, but you do sometimes see over valuing / essentially merging top pair type hands.

So ask yourself if the nut bottom of your opponents raising range is top pair what should we do.

Preach

Seriously wtf is with this sizing?

Whys that I don't even rly post that much in mh fr

Bc I don't like you



Honestly this gave me the idea to bet with $1s as an unknown in a 5/10 game. I mean seriously how f***ing funny would it be to bet $309 in a live 5/10 game.

Based on my guess, this is not live game. It is Chinese untracked online game. It should be equivalent to 3/6 USD game.

h1 fold turn, maybe flop is super passive
h2 fold flop

how/why fold flop?

On flop villain has a range of 34, 56hh, 33, 44, and probably some Kx. Knowing nothing save for he is overbet jamming another unknown whose range has top set and suited broadway and AKo makes me think that while villain is will proabably show up with way more than outlined above as this isn't necessarily the most profitable line unless our villain assumes the standard player at these games with snap call with any Kx. Kind of a hefty amount of assumptions but as stated above, we know absolutely nothing so I'm going to make some inferences.

That said, I'm seeing a turn in H2 a healthy amount of time.