Effective stacks ~ 300
Villain is older guy, tight with opening preflop loose caller postflop
Two players limp
Villain raises to 11 in CO
Folds to Hero in SB
Hero calls with JdJh
(3 bet here?)
Both limpers call (Pot ~ 46)
Flop 8c 7h 5c
Checks to Villain who bets 30
Hero call, limpers fold
Turn 5s (Pot ~ 106)
Hero checks
Villain bet 40
Hero?
i probably 3bet pre. Sucks to 3bet/f but it also sucks to play a multiway pot oop. We can definitely get called by worse and if everybody folds it's fine too.
Flop seems standard.
Turn: for that price we pretty much have to call. Villain has 99-TT and maybe some broadway flush draws.
Prepare to fold river a bunch though. Actually for that reason folding turn might be ok also.
Call. The turn changes nothing. If you were calling pre to set mine then you should have folded flop.
I would have 3! pre myself to around $45-50 and folded to a 4bet. If he's good he flats your 3! with AA/KK and felts you on this board but that's poker.
I like flat pre but it does depend on what you mean by opening "tight". How tight are we talking? Can you give an estimate of the worst hand he would raise in that spot?
I'm also probably check folding the flop vs a tight player. For the bet into three opponents they are obviously going to have something, and for a tight player that something basically has to be an overpair on a board like this, or maybe top set. We're probably about 35% equity vs his range so call is breakevenish, but then there's the two other guys to worry about.
I like flat pre but it does depend on what you mean by opening "tight". How tight are we talking? Can you give an estimate of the worst hand he would raise in that spot?
I'm also probably check folding the flop vs a tight player. For the bet into three opponents they are obviously going to have something, and for a tight player that something basically has to be an overpair on a board like this, or maybe top set. We're probably about 35% equity vs his range so call is breakevenish, but then there's the two other guys to worry about.
I played with him for about an hour and a half and he opened two or three hands to 11 but never got to show down to see what he had. He was somewhat loose calling postflop and leading out postflop though.
You said you like flat pre but johnnyBuz says if I flat that means I'm set mining? I dont think you ever want to be set mining with Jacks correct?
2.5 hands in 1.5 hours is about 4%, assuming 40 hands/hr. That's something like JJ+, AQ+. Obviously sample size is too small to have any faith in that at all. He could actually be anywhere from crazy loose to nitty tight. But it's the only info we have to make an estimate, so I'd put him at somewhat tight. UTG is probably even tighter than this, let's say something like JJ+, AQs+ (maybe not even AQs).
This argues against a 3b, since we're often going to be called and often going to be behind.
Stacks are deep enough that we can call, even if only to set mine, though we may actually have the best hand, so it's not a pure mining play.
AP, I don't mind a tight fold OTF. I also don't mind a call, since we might still be ahead if V will stab with two overs or if his PFR range includes TT.
The turn is starting to look more like a fold. Described V doesn't seem likely to double barrel with only two overs and we beat only 6 combos of a likely 27. Still, we're getting 3.5:1 so I don't think a call is terrible.
I'd definitely x/f the river though. The chances V PFR and bets three times with TT are pretty slim and everything else has us crushed.
Edit:
Set mining with jacks is fine if we're confident that V has better. Arbitrary rules like never set mining with jacks can be useful while learning, but should ultimately be replaced by understanding why people started using the rule and where it does and doesn't apply.
2.5 hands in 1.5 hours is about 4%, assuming 40 hands/hr. That's something like JJ+, AQ+. UTG is probably even tighter than this, let's say something like JJ+, AQs+ (maybe not even AQs).
This argues against a 3b, since we're often going to be called and often going to be behind.
Villain didn't raise UTG, he raised to $11 from the CO over two limpers.
What I am thinking on this line is what else would he be betting 30 into 3 other players with, then continuing on the turn? Even if we give him a slightly looser range what am I beating, 9, 10s, AcQc+? As you know the bluff % in 1/2 is very low and I could see a cbet but not double barrel. Only spot double barrel would make sense is if he had the nut flush draw. So does that mean most times I should call turn and fold river if club hits? What if no club and I face a third barrel? And thank you for the advice I am young and still learning and need to start getting off these blanket types of rules. Also thank you everyone for your help.
Result - ended up folding but still wondering if I was being too tight. I got into another hand with him about 20 mins later where it made me think even more that I was being too tight which is why I posted.
Villain didn't raise UTG, he raised to $11 from the CO over two limpers.
Indeed. Thanks for the correction.
That widens him up some, enough that 3b should be back on the menu.
AP, I think it makes a x/c on the flop reasonable and a x/c on the turn worthy of serious consideration. V may well have 99 or TT in his range and we've been passive, making a double barrel slightly more likely.
But I think x/f the river is still clearly in order.
