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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 04-04-2017, 03:47 PM   #1
pologuy64
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2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

2-5 NL 9-Handed

Villian $1800: Is currently getting killed this session. Being fairly active and not giving up in a lot of spots. I have seen him show multiple bluffs, during the session.

Hero $2850: Is playing super LAG. Got stuck a buy-in early, but I have been controlling the table up until this point. I have also owned villain this session. Picking him apart by bluff catching, value betting, etc.

Hero opens to 15 (std raise) from MP with 45. Light I know but I have control over the table and feel I can turn this into a winning hand long run.

Button calls 15
Villian from SB makes it 60 to go
Hero calls (Mistake I know but I made it, and now want to play it the best I can)
Button Calls

Pot: $190
Flop comes KQ4
Villian checks (expect him to bet here always, weird to me that he checks)
Hero checks
Button checks

Pot:$190
Turn is a 5
Villian leads for 125
Hero makes it 350
Button folds
Villian makes it 500
Hero calls (Should we be calling this?)

Pot: $1190
River is a 10
Villian beats 150
Hero calls (I planned on folding to this river, but he ended up betting $150!!!)

Thougths?

Last edited by pologuy64; 04-04-2017 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:56 PM   #2
Minatorr
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Fold pre both times. FFS you have 5 high. This is a largely -EV play 99.8% of the time. You're at the stone cold bottom pf your opening range; calling the 3-bet is even spewier than the original open. And if you start opening hands like this, you're going to become a target for 3-bets by good players IP. Yeah sure you probably feel invincible, but your skill edge doesnt warrant opening 5 high from MP.

Turn is a flat call. Calling the turn 3-bet is alright.

AP, call river.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:23 PM   #3
rbenuck4
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

I'm fine with preflop. You have position on a guy super deep who will make worse mistakes than you (maybe not this hand, but overall), with a hand that can either flop big or nothing. I'd rather have this hand than A10o in this situation.

Flop is fine. Turn doesn't make sense. You raised 225 to 350, and then he raised another 150 to 500. does not compute.

Regarding turn raise in general, I don't like it. You shouldn't really have too many raises here. You should be betting most of your Kings here, as well as your set of fours, and the 5 on the turn really shouldn't change much (even though it made your hand), so you are really representing very little here. You are representing 55, 45, and then other than that it's draws like AJcc, A10cc, 109cc, etc...

If he repopped you small, I'm calling.

River....I ****ing hate these bets. They are such tough bets to defend against, because they are obvious blocking bets, but even when you raise, I find players at these levels oftentimes level themselves into calling anyways. That being said, you can't end up with much worse on this river (maybe a missed J10o or 67o), so if there's ever a hand to balance your value shoves with, this is it. If you got the stones, I might push here to try and get him to lay down KQ, QQ, or KK (which is what his story has told me so far).
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:17 AM   #4
pologuy64
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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Originally Posted by rbenuck4 View Post
If you got the stones, I might push here to try and get him to lay down KQ, QQ, or KK (which is what his story has told me so far).
Great Post Thanks! Ya I am sure I messed up on the turn action but it is close.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:18 AM   #5
HairyLobster
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

the turn bet seems like total Kx blocker ... Anything for value would size considerably bigger i would think. Not going to comment on the turn as it was already said, however the river is a call unless you feel hes super weak ... then maybe Raise/fold to a jam.

Call>Raise>fold
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:57 PM   #6
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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Originally Posted by pologuy64 View Post
2-5 NL 9-Handed

Villian $1800: Is currently getting killed this session.
How is someone sitting on $1800 at a 2-5 game getting killed?
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:00 PM   #7
Teph
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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How is someone sitting on $1800 at a 2-5 game getting killed?
wut. some games have a 1.5k cap. even at 1k cap its not hard to be in for a handful of buyins
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:16 AM   #8
bigcountry85
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Preflop: I don't mind the raise from MP and calling the raise could be dicey. However that all depends on your perception, at the time, of the villain and his intent. Folding is probably better than raising but I don't mind it as a one off. You have some history with the villain but what we don't know is how often he has been 3-betting, you specifically and the table in general.

Flop: Seems standard. No reason to bet.

Turn: I think calling is better than raising for a number of reasons. Namely, I don't think at this point your hand is strong enough to represent much unless you walked into a set on the turn. Most LAGs would've bet their draws/sets/2pr on the flop after the pre-flop raiser checked the action over. After raising, you are locked into calling his over the top and going to the river. If he raised larger, folding definitely has more merit but you still would have to evaluate.

River: Call. While not a card you necessarily want to see, you are have to call based on that value.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:31 PM   #9
day'n'night
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

jam river
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:03 AM   #10
MK7749
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

I like the call on the turn the more i thnk about it. His ranged is still uncapped and we could easily be up against KK here.

Only hand we beat on turn is AK, AKcc. River we lose to everything besides a dumb AA and AK. I probably still call as well man.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:54 AM   #11
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Agree with jamming
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:17 PM   #12
pauper
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Think this is a terrible spot and a bad hand to bluff with. I know we gotta be all doug polk GTO nowadays but this is a 2/5 game with a tilted stationy villain that OP has been "owning" the entire session. You're trying to rep a bd flush in a 3bet pot against a tilted fish who is repping sets himself. He can also has some weirdly played one pair hands like AA or AK that were trying to trap you on the flop, which makes calling getting 9-1 way more +EV than bluffing IMO.

JT would be better to bluff even though you shouldn't​ have gotten to the river with this line, but you also shouldn't be in this spot with 54 either.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:22 PM   #13
Jarretman
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Initial raise pre is fine. Probably just fold to the 3bet is best. As played jam.
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:08 AM   #14
MK7749
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

in my 5/T game, very very few players will fold a straight, very few will fold set, few will fold 2pr, and a lot would fold 1 pair.

Bigger rooms, more tourists, shoving might work but thats a bit too risky for me.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:17 AM   #15
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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Agree with jamming
what's the logic behind jamming?

Do we ever get worse (AK, AA) to call a jam on the river?
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:52 AM   #16
diskoteque
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

No I don't think so

I think we win the pot almost always though
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Old 05-03-2017, 08:09 AM   #17
uberkuber
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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No I don't think so

I think we win the pot almost always though
Maybe, but turning a hand that has SDV into a bluff doesn't seem optimal.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:51 PM   #18
diskoteque
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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Maybe, but turning a hand that has SDV into a bluff doesn't seem optimal.


Why not win a pot 100% of the time as opposed to 70% of the time or whatever it is if we jus call?
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:55 PM   #19
rbenuck4
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

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Why not win a pot 100% of the time as opposed to 70% of the time or whatever it is if we jus call?
This
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:05 AM   #20
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Agree with jamming
you have the near bottom of your range here, you can jam, though expect to get looked up more often at 2-5 on average.

but if the villain reads are correct with this villain is 100% snapping a jam from hero with all hands better than bottom 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Why not win a pot 100% of the time as opposed to 70% of the time or whatever it is if we jus call?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbenuck4 View Post
This
45 on this river is a bluff catcher, and it's really hard for villain to not have 45 beat here given the turn action. That said, villain dependent.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:05 PM   #21
Hacksaw
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

How I play this on the flop really depends on my read of the other players. There's a few guys I play with who almost always flopped a set when they check the flop. KK and QQ are very likely here. You say you are surprised by his check on the flop. What have you seen in this player previously that makes this a surprise?

Given that he reraised you OOP preflop and then checked the flop his hand seems very polarized to me. Most likely he either flopped a set or has KQ, JJ or TT or maybe AJ. If he's not the type of player from whom a check always means a set I might bet when checked to on the flop in order to get information. If he calls you have more information and can shut down on later streets to save some money. Given that you raised preflop it's very possible that he might put you on either a K or Q and lay down AJ, JJ or TT or any other small pair.

As played on the flop I probably call the turn unless it's a player who I think slow played a monster on the flop. I'm trying to keep the pot small and give bluffers more opportunity to bluff again on the river.

Given that he RR you on the turn he's definitely signalling a monster hand. Unless he's a bad player who thinks KJ is a monster or a maniac who bets anything you gotta think you're behind here. If he does have KK or QQ you are even drawing dead. At this point I'd eliminate JJ and smaller pairs from his range. That doesn't leave a lot in his range you are winning against. Maybe if he's tricky he might be doing something like this with AJc or JTc having both a straight and flush draw on the turn. Most players with this holding would have not RR preflop and would not have checked the flop.

With the river being the 10c that eliminates the JTc from his holdings and AJc just drew out on you. A small bet like that is either a value be just begging to be called or a blocking bet because he fears you have the flush. You cannot call this. He's shown nothing but strength the entire way and even many of the hands that he might have been betting light have beaten you. Unless you've got a strong read do not call. As MK7749 said, the only hands that at all make sense that you can beat are AK, AKcc and dumb AA and I really doubt he has any of them.

Jamming the pot may be a possibility if you believe that he's scared of the flush. The problem is that the pot is already at $1340 and he's only got $1190 in his stack. Jamming will give him a little over 2:1 to call. Considering how this played out I doubt he's going to lay the hand down for that. He might put YOU on AKcc and fold but you do say he hasn't given up on a lot of spots. Whether you choose to make this play or not really has to depend on your read of the player. Given your description of his play I probably wouldn't jam.

I think the raise on the turn has led you to a really tough spot.

Cheers!
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:02 PM   #22
JDPuopolo
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

It's $150. Call just to see what he has
Absolutely don't jam. If he's beat, you'll find out with the call. If you jam, he's (probably) not going to call if he's beat. You are only risking money to find out what calling would tell you. And there's enough money in the pot already. If he's playing that way he's playing, you'll have better opportunities to get the money in good.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:52 PM   #23
solidmussel
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

I don't think there's any point in jamming river here unless you're dead sure he's got AK. There is no way a player like this is folding a set or top two just because a backdoor flush came. Honestly don't think he'd even fold AK in a lot of cases.

This really seems like an easy call on the river. You're getting a great price... see what he's got and move on.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:29 AM   #24
djevans
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

Jamming is fine, but pretty high variance and probably will make you tilt the rest of your session, so I don't think you should.

Personally this hand was butchered from the start and you made it so hard to play. I don't think he ever folds KK or QQ here, and you beat a lot of hands any ways, so calling isn't bad.

Villain made a silly play by betting $150 - he could have a really strong hand and wants you raise.

What did you put him on?
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:23 PM   #25
Svizac
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Re: 2-5 NL, Mistake after Mistake and then I make a hand...

My 2 cents

PreFlop: I don't see anything wrong with calling a 3-bet with 45suited. We're in position with 300bb deep. Implied odds!

Flop: Him not c-betting is a bit weird. He may be trapping or has TT, JJ, QQ. Still I'd rather check-back than bet.

Turn: So we bink the turn and he bets. I'd rather call than raise as we're only getting called by better hands. As played I'd fold to his turn 3bet no matter how small it is. It just signals a monster hand that wants to keep you in.

River: Now he bets 150 into 1200? WTF? IMO jamming is out of question. Few players will fold here after previous action, and also villain is losing and probably on tilt. We're never good but I'd give him 150 just to see the cards.
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