If he has an overpair here you think he's calling turn w 5k behind? It's pretty hard for you to bluff shove here given the fact that there's a side pot. Seems like he's min raising so he can fold to a shove and get big draws to pay. This is all predicated on him being an online superstar as laid out in op.

I still don't like flatting the flop, there is a lot of money in the pot and we can still lose and we are deep. I suppose once you flat flop you might as well flat turn. Unfortunately you might be losing TONS of value by playing this way and can still stack off when we are beat. V1 min raising is pretty strange, I don't think there is a hand he should be doing this with, although I suspect he really wants you to fold and is hoping that the min raise looks really strong. I also don't think there is a river I can fold to for any amount, although I am never going to be totally happy about it unless q or 8 peels

What's up with all the min raising from V1? A high stakes pro trying to run over the table and he minraises flop bet from v2 and then minraises turn bet from v2? Has he minraised much in previous hands?

Also V2 is playing strange, just calling flop minraise with his stack size and shoving turn on this board. Looks like he has flush draw wQ and hit his Q here.

This hand is a cluster****. One thing for sure, V1 is not drawing to anything. This spot is almost always a shove by us but because play is so convoluted here I just call turn. V1s play just seems too suspicious.

I also flat this flop waiting for v2 to reraise.

Seems like if you raise flop to 2K v1 is never folding an overpair or good draw. If he is then you of course should change your blueprint on how to play against him.

On the flop I like tank making it 1850 so it looks like you are willing to commit the SS all in but might be willing to fold for all the marbles if V1 were to reiso. As played you need to jam as cold calling twice in your spot will likely only get you paid off if he has like midset+.

I think what people are missing is what your hand looks like given the action and your image. You look like you are on a huge draw here since the standard line is to pop such a draw heavy board with a big hand (clearly standard since 100% of you are saying that's what you should do. A guy stuck and can't make a hand would for sure pop right?). If this guy is such a great player he's not stacking off on the flop 400bb deep with an overpair and he's not getting it in on the turn with overs since you really can't EVER bluff in this spot with another player in the hand. On the river, however, it's going to be very hard for him to fold overs and he's still getting in all of his combo+ hands given the action. I also feel it's hard for him to shove any flushes that come in on the river since your hand looks like it connects.

lol what the ****, just raise and build the pot since you essentially have the nuts.

The only way any competent player would ever put you on any sort of draw cold calling these raises twice is is if he has absolutely zero regard for your game whatsoever. If he thinks you don't suck or actually play this game for a living he will likely put you on the the nuts, maybe w a nut redraw as well.

The biggest problem though with trying to 'rep' a huge draw is that the huge draw will get there a lot of the time, thus causing him to shut down with hands that you can easily level into committing a lot of chips by making the correctly sized raise while maybe giving off some signs you might be willing to fold. Also, if he has a huge draw you freeroll him going into the river since he will likely c/f if he misses while stacking you if he has better. Jamming turn gets him to call off draws with anywhere between 20-30% equity against our actual holding.

Still think the correct answer is some form of 3b flop though.

Is Tom the villain ?

Not going to out villain... I guess my main question was does V2 usually ship over V1's flop raise and hero's call here (since he's never folding). I think he does, and so do a few others itt, which makes flatting the flop raise the best play IMO.

The turn (once the flop plan is foiled) is debatable, but I think V1 is almost always raise/folding with some one pair hand he figures is ahead of V2's drawy range, hoping to maybe fold out better from hero or just charge him to draw (or he's just in super spew mode and clicking away on the minraise button as a default, idk). Either way, I think V1 is almost always drawing to 2 outs max against hero and so if hero thinks he can win more money on a lot of river cards by just flatting, that's fine. If not, a turn ship in this big pot is better- even if it's never really getting called by worse.

Results:



Danka

Flatting the flop is clearly best because if V2 ships over V1 on the flop, you can call. If he minraises, then you can flat and get it in on a blank turn(if you think he is betfolding there, like you clearly thought he was doing on the turn). The only question is whether he calls on a brick river. If not, you might as well ship the turn...

tell V1 the game has passed him by and bet 900 on river, as played.

You should have made the villain show what I'm assuming we're overs.

This is a very interesting line, and you might be right.

I still think I ship it and pray that he calls wondering why we didn't raise on such a drawy flop. I believe the pot will be around 14K, 5K for him to call; getting just under 3 to 1 I would be praying that he calls.

What about this as a weird sort of line:

MinRz to say 4500 total?

Any draws he may have should call this. Overpairs might call (not sure--it would be a weird play by us in his eyes). And if he does call the pot would then be around 13400 or so and we'd have around 2500 left. Overpairs would be getting 6 to 1 if they made it to a blank river and we shipped. Maybe the raiser would spazz-ship on the turn??

This turn minrz is a very weird play (and maybe very bad). But I'd be interested in your opinions.

Again, to recap, we'd get 2500 additional from draws (which would be forced to call based on odds), and the strangeness of the play combined with the lack of a flop rz could draw in overpairs that some of you think would fold to a shove.

So if you have A5d you're folding the turn? Are you shipping? Obviously everyone on here is saying ship the turn with a near nut hand. So if we don't ship it goes against what a good player would think we'd do (our goal) and he could put us on a draw. If we rep a draw and it gets there its not that big of a loss against a "good" player since he would fold overs on the turn anyways. A blank river makes it real awkward for him and he could check call a bet leveling himself into calling for the side pot.