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10/20 Top top vs sLAG donk bet 10/20 Top top vs sLAG donk bet

08-08-2016 , 05:59 PM
Hero has around 5K and villain covers. He's a good sLAG vegas pro. He probably thinks of me as passive nit.

Preflop:
Hero opens black AK from UTG+1 to $70, 3 ppl call, villain calls from the BB.
Based on how I've seen him play before, his range preflop is any two suited cards.

Flop (350): K76
Villain donks $200, I call, everyone else folds.

Turn (750): T
Villain bets $500, I call.

River (1750): 4
Villain bets $1400, Hero???
10/20 Top top vs sLAG donk bet Quote
08-08-2016 , 08:38 PM
Tough spot IMO and I like calling down flop and turn.
Any history of overbetting by him?

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08-08-2016 , 09:38 PM
I'm buzzed, and have been thinking on more of a 4card level these days, but if he thinks we're that passive and nitty, can we bluff raise/merge turn??? Just bomb it, only repping sets, which in general kind of sucks, but depending on image could possibly work.
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08-09-2016 , 01:48 AM
Depending on the stack sizes of the remaining players, I may find a raise on the flop. His range should be pretty weak there and your hand could use some protection.

On the turn, I might find another raise. Logically you would rather put in 1500 vs his turn bet than face this 1400 bet now, I'm thinking. You get to put in money with a significant equity advantage vs his range. You could easily fold to a reraise, since your range includes 98/KT/set. This is all assuming that the majority of his range consists of flush draws, possibly now including a gutshot or pair.

The river I'd call unhappily. The fact that 98 got there might embolden him to continue semibluffing a lot of his Thxh/9hxh/8xhx and follow through on this river. Empirically, I also just see flush draws donking this flop significantly more often than 98. He doesn't really rep KT so you lose essentially to 98 77 66 K7 K6 76 and 85, not all of which would always take this line.
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08-09-2016 , 02:12 AM
You are not good often enough to call here. Dumping the turn wouldn't even be terrible. I think you can call a fish here but not some one you describe as a pro. He has all two pairs and sets in his range and 98 and 85 get there. How often is he betting worse for value when he views you as a nit? Almost never. So he could be triple barreling with aj-aq-a10hh and gets stubborn at the end by putting in a river bluff. I find most pros would check call or check raise a hand like nut flush draw. Seems like he flopped two pair or even turned two pair. I fold
10/20 Top top vs sLAG donk bet Quote
08-09-2016 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Depending on the stack sizes of the remaining players, I may find a raise on the flop. His range should be pretty weak there and your hand could use some protection.

On the turn, I might find another raise. Logically you would rather put in 1500 vs his turn bet than face this 1400 bet now, I'm thinking. You get to put in money with a significant equity advantage vs his range. You could easily fold to a reraise, since your range includes 98/KT/set. This is all assuming that the majority of his range consists of flush draws, possibly now including a gutshot or pair.

The river I'd call unhappily. The fact that 98 got there might embolden him to continue semibluffing a lot of his Thxh/9hxh/8xhx and follow through on this river. Empirically, I also just see flush draws donking this flop significantly more often than 98. He doesn't really rep KT so you lose essentially to 98 77 66 K7 K6 76 and 85, not all of which would always take this line.
Why do you believe his range is weak on the flop? He is leading into 4 players, one being a perceived nit who was the preflop raiser. This looks like a very value heavy range to me that doesn't want to see things check through on a wet board, since the preflop raiser will be checking a decent bit in a multiway pot.

Given his perception of you and how the hand played out he puts you on exactly what you have on the river, a one pair hand, almost certainly AK or AA. I see him underbluffing this river card against that perceived range, so I'd fold. I also think it's far more likely that he plays a flopped set like this than T8hh or something.

One thing that concerns me is that you say his range is any two suited cards preflop. That doesn't really line up with a good pro, but assuming both are true, that should mean you have a lot of experience seeing him flop flush draws. Any history of those hands would be helpful in this spot.
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08-09-2016 , 05:01 AM
I think his range is weak because it's pretty likely for him to check a big hand with relative position. Going for a check raise with a set or two pair is irresistible for most, since a bet from hero and one or more calls is so likely.

The fact that he plays any two suited in this spot just makes his range all the weaker. Of course he could still choose to lead with only sets and two pairs, but Bayes' rule suggests otherwise unless hero has specific reads to the contrary. It's really really hard to put people on sets when they're such a remote number of combos, 6 compared to the ~600 combos he gets to the flop with.
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08-09-2016 , 11:33 AM
Probably exaggerated a little when I said any suited. More like any suited gapper. So 84s is in but 83s isn't.
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08-10-2016 , 11:36 AM
Why you say this sir. Its relevant here. Unless your just a rich dude don't think you wanna be playing 10/20 w strong players and Have no clue how to use this in bluffcatching scenario
Also think the title is misleading just cuz he's completing/defending wide from bb doesn't make him slag makes it more likely that dude knows what he's doing

Last edited by lolposting2016; 08-10-2016 at 11:43 AM.
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08-11-2016 , 07:19 AM
His flop lead is lol strong. There are no Vegas slags imo. Obv he had a set.
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08-14-2016 , 07:51 PM
Yeah definitely folding turn, definitely folding river. When a sLAG leads into 4 players and gets called by a nit on a K high board, the sLAG knows you have AK+, and is not trying to get you to fold top pair to him. And the straight draws hit? This is a turn fold in my opinion.
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08-15-2016 , 10:00 AM
ugh. 89 hearts got there. I would fold the river. Don't mind the call on the flop and turn though. But when he fires three bullets, he most likely has it.
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08-15-2016 , 01:58 PM
even his flop bet is pretty strong oop into 4 players. probably u r not winning this one even 20% of the time
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08-15-2016 , 02:01 PM
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong here. TBH I don't see this line a lot in my super soft live game so I have a bias. When people in my game do dumb unlikely ****, they tend to have dumb cards.
10/20 Top top vs sLAG donk bet Quote
08-15-2016 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong here. TBH I don't see this line a lot in my super soft live game so I have a bias. When people in my game do dumb unlikely ****, they tend to have dumb cards.
This is my general strat against fish/perceived fish when they take a line like this the first time. Like you said, dumb line = dumb cards for me and I generally find a call here.

Vs a good/solid reg though I tend to find the opposite,weird/bizarre lines generally are pretty strong. Obviously we can expect a really good player to mix things up, but don't think a K high board where all the draws bricked vs. a perceived nit pfr who has shown significant interest in the hand is the spot where he is going to take a weird/cute bluff line at first.

Imo
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08-30-2016 , 12:45 PM
Results?
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08-30-2016 , 11:21 PM
T6hh obv.
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09-03-2016 , 10:17 AM
donk leading flop into 4 people is very strong these days. So is tripling a range that is mostly AK+. fold river or godmode fold earlier
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09-04-2016 , 05:50 PM
Fold turn. His strongest draw just got there and I don't think he's donk betting into 4 people on a wet board with nothing. Raising flop is bad because best case you get it in flipping and worst case you're dead.

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09-04-2016 , 11:14 PM
I would have folded flop (yes, fold flop to this lead 5-way).

But since you got here this way, jam river.

He has only 4 combinations of 89s and all other combinations of two pairs and low sets should fold given your image. It helps a lot that you block top set.
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09-05-2016 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoh
He has only 4 combinations of 89s
Nope.
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09-05-2016 , 06:44 AM
raise flop to 625, bet 1425 on turn and check river bricks. Too many runouts that are going to be bad with our hand and it is never a good idea to cap our range vs a SLAG on a draw heavy board. I rather take the initiative in the hand on the flop if his range is as wide as you say it is.
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