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10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river 10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river

02-19-2017 , 09:56 PM
10/20 home game, 6-handed. No rake. So we don't chop.

Hero on SB, V on BB. Hero has around 9k, V has 10k.

V plays pretty laggy style. He has been 3betting pre IP a few times. Hero should be perceived as tight but aggro overall.

We had a bit history.

HH:
250BB deep on this hand

Hero on CO raise to 60 with red 55. V 3bets to 200 OTB. H calls

flop 6d6hTd (430)

V bets 300, H calls

turn 9h. (1030)
check check

river Ah (1030)
H checks, V bets 800, H raise to 2800, V folds.

(I think V's range is super capped at AK in this spot, and decided to turn my hand into bluff)


This hand:

hero on SB has black KK.

H raise to 70. V flats.

Flop Kh3c4c (140)
H checks, V bets 100, H calls.

Turn 6s (340)
H checks, V bets 250. H raise to 850, V 3bets to 3400. H calls

River 8c (7140)
H checks, V shoves. Hero needs to call 5.5k

hero probably never has flushes or straights in my range. I might bet all my flush draws and 57s OTF. KK is the best hand I can have here. Kc is probably a bit irrelevant here as V is never 3betting KcXc on the turn. But V could have so many value combos, 57o, or some 5cXc.

One could argue that when somebody shove over 200BB on the river in a live games. It means that they always have it. Probably yes in most low-mid stake games.

But I guess my question is. Should I take different lines on the flop and turn?
I sort played it in a way cap my range on some run outs and put myself into some very difficult situations at certain run outs.

One friend recommend me to cr flop so that I have some flush draws in my range. That is better for my overall range in later street. What do you guys think?
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-20-2017 , 02:53 AM
Yeah I think flop is a bet or a c/r.

Turn c/r is pretty sketchy when there are so many straight combos that he can have and you can't, all 75s 52s and a laggy player may even defend 75o in position bvb. I'd say you beat 66 but I'm not even sure that hand would put in this >pot size raise on the turn. He reps straights and bluffs only. His bluff combos can't really be 77/55 as those probably wouldn't bet the turn, so it seems to me that they would be comprised largely of flush draw combos. I think you can essentially make an assessment that he can't get to this river with enough bluffing combos for you to call him, which would make the fact that you are at the top of your range irrelevant. You simply check and fold your whole range here, I think.

That said, I see some possible flushes for your range if you're a tricky player.
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-20-2017 , 01:45 PM
Just bet flop. If you want to get fancy then c/r flop but c/r turn here really isn't great imo.

C/f river
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-20-2017 , 03:30 PM
flop is a xr imo. hand 1 with 55 is a xf on the flop vs this sizing. as played fold river
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-20-2017 , 04:41 PM
Seems like a clear 4bet jam on the turn...
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 12:52 AM
Flop is just a bet. X'ing here then getting aggro on later streets is just too transparent on what you have. You'd bet all your bluffs here. You have weak Kx to check, Kxcc, JJ/QQ, etc. AP fold
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 01:03 AM
C/R flop is good with middle and bottom set. Bet is best with top set. Basically when you hold two kings they're significantly more likely to have hands that would call a bet but check facing a check (weak pairs, ace highs), so you maximize by betting. When you have 44, you conversely make it more likely for them to have bet/calling hands and bluffing hands.
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Flop is just a bet. X'ing here then getting aggro on later streets is just too transparent on what you have. You'd bet all your bluffs here. You have weak Kx to check, Kxcc, JJ/QQ, etc. AP fold
Like this
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by day'n'night
flop is a xr imo. hand 1 with 55 is a xf on the flop vs this sizing. as played fold river
hand 1 is a fold on the flop vs lag otb? I'm not sure about it. I thought the standard should be c/c flop, and c/f turn unimproved.
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 11:52 AM
vs 75% pot, yes 55 is a old on this textu
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 12:03 PM
Agreed.
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
02-21-2017 , 03:25 PM
Also this is BvB, generally people hardly ever give you credit for a hand and are going to float/bluff-raise/call you down pretty liberally
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
03-02-2017 , 09:16 PM
One of these reasons why turn isn't a x/r as played is precisely because we don't really have straights and villain does.

l/rr pre. At 450bb deep SB vs BB I'm limping 100% of the hands I choose to play but you can choose to play a raise/mixed strategy as well. I'm definitely not well versed enough in the theory to comment on that.

I bet flop. Renton already posted a good analysis why a few posts above.

As played I x/r flop, as played I x/c turn, as played I x/f river
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
03-11-2017 , 12:15 AM
Would V play a flopped or turned set in this way? We've already established we have zero straights in our range here so all of V's action until the river makes sense for a set. I guess my point is a set has zero reason to slow down on the turn. Doesn't the 3 bet on the turn feel like a made hand? Only 25 and 75 have us beat and while I will concede those hands are possible here I feel like we're looking for MOTB.

As played we called on the turn to "take a card off" and the obvious draw hit. Isn't this now an "easy" (barf) fold?

Bet the flop, either just call to pot control (OOP!) or as played 4bet jam the turn and fold the river.
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote
03-14-2017 , 08:09 PM
not sure what cc hand you expect him to 3b turn with friend, but you basically have the nuts imo. I'd shoot myself in the face before folding here. I may be missing the dynamic of live homegame poker where its possible that no one ever bluffs here, but idk. call all day and be happy about it imo
10/20 home game. 450BB deep. Top range. Tough river Quote

      
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