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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:09 PM   #31
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

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Originally Posted by TimeBomb View Post
What hand is villian supposed to stack off with other than sets or straights?
Realistically? Nothing. But there's 6 lower sets and (presumably) 4 straights, IF he even raises 34s to begin with. And it's not impossible he turned 666, and if he has 34s he could theoretically have some stupid two pair that he can't fold because he's bad, which he is, because he raised something that made two pair.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #32
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

i could def see him spazz in a flushdraw if he thinks he's a huge hero. i'm def raising the turn, and like the flop call as well. i just think our hands too strong and stacks are too deep to flat again on the turn, and stacks are so deep that we can still definitely be raising air/hand into bluff.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #33
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

I think calling flop is fine with the fish behind, As played I raise turn and get it in.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:54 PM   #34
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

lol at everyone thinking villain cant have a hand on the flop.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #35
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

Given his image I just don't think he CR's as the Pfr on a board like that with the fish in the hand with a strong hand. It was highly unlikely someone was going to bet if he checked.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:02 PM   #36
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

And for the guys raising the turn, how much?
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:58 PM   #37
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

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And for the guys raising the turn, how much?
6kish?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:18 PM   #38
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

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6kish?
So you're shoving the turn?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #39
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

6k is ridiculous. i think id go like 3.5 (bout)
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:23 PM   #40
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

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So you're shoving the turn?
Ya i don't mind jamming, I don't know how much you have left on the turn? but I'm trying to get money in the middle before we get some scared cards that can kill our actions, I believe Villian is strong and I don't think hes folding that often so why not get the money in the middle? I don't see any reason to slow play. Flop flat is fine because you want to keep the fish in and a 3bet looks insanely strong, But now it's time to build the pot imo.

Last edited by mg0698; 08-06-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:54 AM   #41
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

Have to 3bet turn maybe even jam if u dont think he would fold qq-aa .. to many scare cards that can come n kill your action if he has an overpair n if he's on a fd u gotta make him pay more
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:04 AM   #42
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

not sure you realize how far ahead of his range you are, raising turn is terrible, way more rivers are good for you than bad
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:05 AM   #43
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

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Have to 3bet turn maybe even jam
it is not possible for hero to 3bet turn
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:29 AM   #44
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

I'm a losing 10/20 player so please disregard my advice.

Preflop looks fine to me.

Flop sizing looks fine to me. I'd probably make it $200. Your opponents have shown so much weakness that you may want to bet with your entire range here. I think a small bet works better against weak ranges. You get much better odds on your bluffs, and your second barrel is more effective due to their weaker continuing ranges.

The decision after the flop raise confuses me a lot. I'd probably 3-bet to $2200.

On the one hand, a 3-bet nearly turns our hand face-up. We're repping sets (weighted towards TT) and maybe a rare bad tilted semi-bluff and that's it. If we just call, we keep the fish in and give villain a chance to keep firing with his draws. If we raise, villain probably folds everything except sets. He might even find a fold with 22.

But on the other hand… we are super deep against a wide range with a hand that will be very hard for us to fold. Do we actually WANT villain to continue with his draws here? I don't think so. We're in danger of giving him very good implied odds against us. What do we do if the flush or straight hits and he keeps on betting? Many live villains almost never barrel the turn unless they hit, so there's a good chance we can't win any more money from his draws anyway.

Also, I think villain's tilt-inducing image weighs this even further towards a 3-bet. He's probably used to people blowing up over him and putting way too much money in, so maybe he'll find a way to pay you off. He might even be tilted himself, as the table talk makes it sound like he's playing too many hands.

Online, against players who pay attention and take notes, where balance matters a lot, I think you should call. Live, where balance doesn't matter as much, people call too much, and don't barrel-bluff very often, I think 3-bet is best.

As played, on the turn, I think call > raise > fold. I think raise/fold > raise/call.

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If you don't think ihave the nuts in this spot you are insane. Or the biggest scared money nit on earth.
1) Wrong.
2) Gives results.
3) Without admitting it.

The possibility that villain has 43 is very important here. There are 16 combos of 43 versus just 6 combos of 55/22. Villain sounds like exactly the sort of player who may have a very wide range preflop in this spot. And 43o is exactly the sort of screw-you garbage hand that a tilted live villain will opt to raise with preflop.

Last edited by boredatheist2; 08-07-2012 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:40 AM   #45
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Re: 10-20 Aria deep with the nuts

But if his range is as wide as 43o then it also includes so much ridiculous crap -- including every possible two pair, random bizarre bluffs and semi-bluffs, monkey tilted bluffs, etc. -- that we're still not folding turn ever. Not to mention that when he has 43 we have equity, when he doesn't he's frequently dead.

Raise/fold turn is just so so so so so bad.

Last edited by PokerFink; 08-07-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Hm did I get trolled? Not even sure.
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