I never play straight LHE, I always play it in a mix. I do play a bunch of HU and I'm noticing that some people are occasionally limping the SB... Wtf is that about? I guess they don't expect much fold equity on a raise or cbet in limit these days, but still limping just seems fishy... Is this like a thing now?

Oh yeah I should mention that the players I've seen are not like total fish either, but it's more likely from a fish than a reg. This is on stars btw.

in general i think it's safe to assume that those guys are not great at hu lhe

I am 99% certain that limping is in the GTO strategy for Heads Up Limit Holdem. I'm basing this on the fact that the strongest bots in the Annual Computer Poker Competition limp sometimes (as can be seen by studying the publicly available hand history logs, see the "Math is apparently ..." thread) and on the fact that limping is also part of my own (more approximate) attempts at calculating GTO strategies. For example, my strategy will limp 16.0% of the time, with a range consisting of mostly fractional amounts of both strong and weak hands (the only hands limped 100% of the time are J2o, T2s, 82s and 72s). The strongest are QQ (15% of the time) and AKs (10% of the time). These numbers will probably change for a more accurate solution but I would be very surprised if limping disappeared completely.

That said, I agree that weak opponents tend to limp too much and with an unbalanced (too weak and too narrow) range, and that if the opponent folds too much when we open-raise then it's probably better to never limp.

Actually not all of the strongest bots limp

Lots of strat going on these days. Basically yes limping (as is any passive play where dubious) is a significant part of gto which is ofc what HUHU play should strive for (vs a competent villian obv), but we're all too lazy to bother. And that risk averseness in us all can't bear to let villain catch his A45 with his 23o vs our AA.

HUHU machines in Vegas limp plenty and win plenty.

Limping is just another tool for your poker tool box. Its a matter of when to use the right tool.

Hyperborean never limps

That's what she said.

You are right. I admit I didn't check this thoroughly, and I accidentally mixed up "Hyperborean-2011-2p-limit-iro" with its opponent.

I see now that none of the top 3 in the "Bankroll Instant Run-off" category limps at all, and only one ("Hyperborean-2011-2p-limit-tbr") of the top 3 in the other category, and only in 0.2% of the hands. (Some of the weaker bots limp a lot though, up to 100% of hands!).

Good thing I wrote I was 99% certain and not 100, because now I'm not so sure anymore. This also indicates that my own solution is pretty bad at the moment.

lol funny how nowadays, we can just go see how bots play to determine whether a move is correct or not.

Sonia limps a good deal and is one of the toughest bots. I limp a lot vrs maniacs but find it too hard to balance against most player types. How did you come up with a GTO pre flop limping strat?

I love limping.

I'm calculating equilibrium strategies with the same general techniques as the University of Alberta guys, but my abstraction is smaller (because I don't have access to computers with 256 GB of RAM) and not as well designed for the turn and river rounds (working on this).

I would love to catch a glimpse into how you are working on this!

You can make some extra money by limping when you expect to get raised. One can also mix it up with whatever one limps with, that might get action from some weaker reg also if you want a game and he is there waiting. It's also possible to play more aggressively then when you get raised, with skilled selective 4bets and flop raises with no pairs no real draws too, doing the things that would make it difficult for you if you would be the one raising those limps. Much of the time it's best not to raise the limps too much, if for no other reason but keep the fish happier or avoid a trap. Also, you can't raise even most of the time vs. a player who limps every hand and calls down light. Against overly aggressive players it's fine to limp also, making them maybe more predictable and one gets value anyway, not needing to raise and there are not that many easy picks anyway. Also, it's fine to mess with the others head by changing strategy in that and other ways too, it being the future way, that is not necessary at these days yet, but when the rakes get lower and hu games are got just like that, them being much tougher then.

Why doesn't anyone post in this forum anymore?


What do you guys think about donking 100% of flops in limped pots against people who you know are folding more than 33%? Is the value you lose from inducing when you're ahead compensated for by immediately picking up more than your fair share of pots? This probably depends on the barreling tendencies of your opponent, right?

Should I just run it in cardrunners EV in lieu of posting about it here?

Maybe they should change the name of the forum from HU Limt to Bodie CA.

it's not just here, but in many parts of 2+2. few people want to give free information to their potential opponents. it's the tragedy of the commons, or the prisoner's dilemma, or kittens, or something.

the strategy you described sounds immediately profitable. it probably is tweakable to be even more so -- off the top of my head i would think leading your air and draws, bluffcatching weak sd value hands, and checkraising your stronger hands, would be even more +ev

I'll bet that old piano sounds as sweet as all the whores who ever set foot in that bar.

Thanks. That sounds spot on to me.

these pics r fantastic...whats the story behind this place?

Abandoned mining town iirc. TBH, I didn't know anything about it until mjackson posted and then I looked it up on Wikipedia or something.

never bothered to figure out GTO since I only play people that can be exploited.

If you want to battle solid regs and breakeven, thats a different story.

doesnt even have to be 33% since u have equity when u are called even with rags, and fold equity on the turn too. If they snap fold 33% of the time its a no brainer.

You're doing it wrong.