http://i.imgur.com/0SxYu9p.jpg

seems like a really good deal... 50c rake but there is a bonus but the computer is VERY tough.

My question is, is it rigged or are you just playing against a good bot? When I say rigged I mean are you playing a superuser computer or a really good bot. How did they program it?

Thanks!

It's not rigged but it's highly unlikely you can beat it.

In Vegas, I noticed they had these new games with rake next to the no rake HU games that have been there for a long time. I think you also got to see some celebrity poker face while you played the new ones. Don't understand why anyone would ever play these new ones given the option.

If you were world class hu limit player with comp the rake is so little plus the bonus I think it is certainly possible to profit from this game.

How do you know its not rigged? I think bots don't have that big of an edge on a really good player.

It's nearly impossible to beat the ones without rake. And the rake is unbelievably high so it's not even close to beatable on the raked ones.

Ask gameoverjc. He's expert.

There are some guys at UofA who might differ with you on that. How close are you to perfect? Their bot is darned close, as in "solved with a couple weasel words".

The old HU bot has been beaten, but not by many. Gameoverjc required an intervention.

The talking head Huhu machines give you reward points

Any chance they would ever make a 6 max machine ?

0% chance. You can't have a machine where you and other players play same hand because of collusion. And you wouldnt want a machine where you fold 70% of the time pre when the alternative is playing 80-100% of hands

These machines know your holding and are programmed in a way to hold back a certain percentage. You can't win but I like your romantic approach ;-)

Hope he sees this thread. I dunno, it seems like the $4/8 bot is tougher than the $1/2 ...

I mean for the $1/2 i have figured out a strategy of pretty much always calling him on paired boards on the flop if i believe i have live cards because hitting 2 pair on the turn is an extra 1/4 bet bonus so it gives me good odds to do that... slow playing trips is good play bc of the bonus and the fact bot is quite aggro.

But the $4/8 bot and even $2/4 bot seems to be able to make really tough folds on turns and rivers making the bonus tougher to reach, because you can always PEEK at what bot has.

That is why I think it mgiht be rigged, because I go through stretches where bot is ALWAYS hitting against my made hands hu. so I dunno.

Another hand that seemed suspicious was when the bot didn't raise my river cbet with a flush when I had a bigger flush... that is just ridiculous (I had nut flush or k hi flush I don't remember, he had a 9 high flush and board was not paired and we both used 2 cards), no one would program a bot to play like that after we had been dueling for almost an hour with crazy bluffs and call downs. I was getting looked up by Q9 ON AK 5 8 2 board (with all 3 streets bets or raises) and 3 betted on 6 8 9 9 by 9X.

It plays real solid though most of the time, and folds ALL 23o -j2 o or worse preflop. It is capable of flatting your check raise with just a runner runner draw such as 76s on a AK 5 flop.... so I really dunno what to make of this bot.....

You are not going to figure out a winning HU strategy from playing a few days against these bots. Play for fun/gamble, free drinks and a learning experience.

The AI is the same for all limits. You probably just ran better at the lower limit. Like the bot, sometimes you hit a run of cards where you always have one pair+ and conclude you have a winning strategy.

It's highly unlikely the Vegas casinos would risk their gaming license to squeeze an extra profit by cheating, when the majority of advanced HU bots probably beat 99.99% of the casino player pool for a lot of money.

This is good to know. Thanks.

This isn't Vegas though, this is illinois casino.

so...? why do you think a casino in Illinois would want to risk their license?

I'm just going to go out a limb here, but is you're not smart enough to figure out that the bonus bets are terrible then youre not good enough to figure out how to beat the bot

the real secret though is that if youre good enough to beat the bot then youre good enough to beat table games at much higher stakes. The bots are little risk to casinos because the few people good enough to beat them wont waste their time on them, and they chew through everybody else.

The real way to make money off the bots is the comps. Even after being in Nevada for years the hosts and reward people have no real clue what youre doing. You rake up points faster than basiclly any other game in the casino because you have an insane amount of coin in on these machines. If your casino offers freeplay or other rewards that basically amount to free money they can be profitable. Eventually though they catch on and do one of three things. Remove the games, change the comp system for the machines or remove comps completely for them, or back you off

Definitely do not play it with the rake. That's a sucker bet.

With no rake, the machines next to the Bellagio poker room are a lot of fun to play. I doubt anyone can really beat them (or beat them for much), but I still recommend them for good players because they are an EXCELLENT tool (even better than the Neo Poker Bot) for playing lots of hands and improving your game.

Brag and variance-- I'm actually a lifetime winner against these things. It won't last if I keep playing them on my Vegas trips.

I seriously believe I am not only playing against a really good bot, but this thing is altogether rigged. There is no way this guy is not raising me with a good flush and then raising me with a bad top pair on scary board... and a lot of other things such as the computer always goes on a suckout streak no matter what with its Ax's. It always happens, I don't know what to say.

Regarding bonus bet...it's better than normal online poker rake which is standard .50 for hu.

"I'm not rigged! You're just bad at math." - - pokibot, circa 2002.

The reality is there's just a boatload of variance in anything heads up. I can remember playing against maniacal opponents in Commerce 20 who would simply never fold anything and be check-raise bluffing 100 percent of their range heads up against blind steals. That's just an incredibly stupid strategy, borne of ego and not math. But sometimes they got hot and won gigantic amounts of money from me over a fairly short period of time.

You have to understand that there's no reason for a gaming operator to rig one of these machines. The machines are going to make a ton of money over the long term against just about anyone who plays them, and in addition, the operator doesn't want players to stop playing them because they suspect rigging, and the operator also doesn't want to get hauled in by the gaming commission.

We really appreciate your warning regarding these rigged machines. I'd stay away from them if I were you.

To add insult to injury they choose to reveal the top pair bluff when they could have simply changed their hand to a set when we peeked. The nerve!

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I've played these machines a lot and have seen some odd stuff but def do not thing they are rigged. They are just very tough in a very hi variance game.

Bro, I have played more hands of heads up limit than the number of times you've probably pressed a key.

No its not true if it is strictly a really well programmed bot it would not be able to steam roll really good hu players after comp based on the the simple math. It would just have a small-small edge. I've played this thing over 2000 hands and different levels and it is no regular bot imo. It is an algorithim that makes sure it destroys similar to how a slot machine destroys players.

No freakin way a bot does some of the things it does, such as 4 bet me on the river on a AQKT X board with broadway when i have a flush and fold for 1 more bet getting like 30 to 1 odds.

Yes this freakin machine did that on one of the hands. it made broadway when i made the flush and we capped it then it folded for 1 more bet, lol?

Seriously i want to have a test and see a total novice play and then world class play it. this machine purposely produces the same results for both type of players it seems like.

edit- AKQTx hand was a giveaway. no one would EVER program an ai to fold with broadway getting 30 to 1 odds ... and I needed 2 cards to make my flush lol...

perhaps we need to start investigating these things and start a class action lawsuit and let the gaming commission know this is not fair heads up at all.

You're going to have to beat jon_locke or OTR15 in a HS HUHU match to convince us that you're a big favorite over the machine. Then, its cheating will be evident.