but the HOA isn't a profit center, is it?

isn't this a matter of vacancy? x dollars in upkeep / well less than 100% filled units?

The whole problem in Vegas is that high-rises there aren't marketable as prestige properties. Developers saying that they're prestige properties doesn't make them so.

Comparing HOA fees/Maintenance fees without reviewing the Condo/HOA's budget is pretty meaningless.

It's possible to keep the monthly fees very low if you decide not to maintain a reserve fund of any significance, and instead choose to rely on assessments when big and predictable renovation costs are incurred; typically these include roof renovations, elevator renovations, boiler and central air replacements etc.

Since buyers will be limited by a total budget to cover the sum of mortgage, montly fees and real estate taxes, keeping the monthly fees low this way does provide for higher sales prices, but also for very unpleasant shocks when big assessments comes around, sometimes leading to defaults and foreclosures, and in the end hurting the the condo/HOA quite a lot.

A responsible board will aim at a balance between on one hand maintaining a reasonable reserve fund, setting means aside for the typical "big" predictable expenditures and for maintaining a level of upkeep that secures the value of the home owners investment (replacing common amenities, carpets and painting in hallways and common areas etc.), and on the other hand keeping the monthly fees low enough to prevent reductions in unit sales prices.

Obviously a condo/HOA in a building where a rapid inhabitant turnover rate is expected will have less interest in securing financing for future expenditures than is the case in a building with a more stable population.

The bylaws of the typical condo/HOA will charge monthly maintenance/HOA fees based on unit square footage, floor and exposure.

Living in a 21 year old condo in NYC my maintenance fees are currently at $1.15 per square foot. We have undergone - and are still undergoing - several big renovation projects, but thanks to a responsible condo policy the assessments have been minimal.

Yep. That's what I was trying to get at with "comparable". Comparing condo fees for a low-rise condo that has no security doesn't work. Comparing to one that isn't charging enough so they keep assessing special fees doesn't work. Comparing the fee on a 600sqft place to a 1700sqft place doesn't work.

So here's a comparison that shows the condo fees in NYC are twice as much per sqft as Panorama. And still they have had a few assessments.

So I'm just not at all convinced that the LV luxury condo fees really are high (in comparison to any other city).

High rise HOA dues in Dallas start in the 35c per square foot range for recent basic buildings and go up to over 70c for high end buildings like the Ritz. In Texas that typically includes "umbrella" insurance which is sort of like homeowners insurance except it doesn't insure the interior contents, so you don't have to buy homeowners insurance but I recommend at least insuring the contents so this saves you some money right off the bat. HOA dues also cover exterior maintenance/repairs as well as amenities (door, valet, etc depending on the building) and often include some utilities such as water and trash. Sometimes, rarely, electricity is included but these buildings obviously have high HOA dues. many buildings have negotiated for commercial electricity rates which are less per KWH than you'd pay on your own.

All things being equal, older buildings have higher dues because they need more frequent and more costly repairs plus tend to not have as efficient of HVAC systems.

Non high rise condos have lower HOA dues but similar coverage. You of course pay property tax in addition to dues with any property.

Gated community houses tend to have flat HOA dues or dues that are scaled based on the size of your lot. A very nice community might have $4,000 a year in dues, a more basic community will be a lot less.

Dues add up over time, but they do cover a lot. I own a home and every year we have 1 major deal like new fence, roof, plumbing, foundation repair, whatever that if we lived in a high rise we wouldn't have to pay for.

Also, most high rises have "two pipe" HVAC systems like in commercial office buildings which means you only pay electricity and maintenance for your inside equipment and the HOA runs the large rooftop air conditioner unit - this makes your electricity bill in the summer maybe half what it would be otherwise.

Furthermore, bldgs with high dues tend to depress the underlying sale prices of the actual condos, and vice-versa.

That is very surprising. Usually HOA dues are based on size or are a flat fee per unit.

Well, you'd be wrong. High rises in many cities range from nice to high luxury. That, and the fees are simply what it costs to run the building divided by some reasonable number like the number of units or more frequently the square footage per unit. HOA fees are not a profit center, and an analogy would be like if you owned a house and everybody on the block got together and hired a lawn mowing service and a roofer and a painter etc and decided to split the costs.

Sure, but the people managing it charge their fee, as well as asking contractors to charge double and splitting the money with them.

The only places I've heard about in the usa where HOA is higher then vegas is NYC and some blocks in Miami.

Compare the HOA on a 1300 sq/ft place at Sky of about $850 a month, to the HOA of a 3500 sq ft house in Canyon gate country club, of $200 a month, and from that they even take care of your front yard!

Look, it's not all a big conspiracy. It costs a lot of money to run a high rise and the residents pay that bill collectively. Some (very few) buildings are self-managed and the rest use management companies which obviously charge an extra fee but that is not much of the budget.

Contractor kickbacks? Exception rather than the norm. In fact TBH I've never heard of it until today and I know a lot of people on HOA association boards as well as in management companies as well as high rise residents. I've also lived in more than a few. I also work in that industry. I have friends and clients who live in high rises (and gated communities). I know a few things about high rises. HOAs get multiple bids to do big jobs and review them in meetings with the residents present (at least those who want to attend), and the residents all see detailed financial statements. The mgt company does not have a blank checkbook.

If there is a time when there is corruption like this possible, it would be when the developer still runs the association before the last unit is sold, but this is against the best interest of the developer because they try to keep dues low in order to entice people to buy there. I could type many paragraphs on this phenomenon, but suffice to say that dues generally go up once the residents take over and not vice-versa.

You say Sky costs $850/month for 1300sf? 65c a foot, not exactly earth-shattering. That's less than some places in Dallas and less than some places in Ft Meyers (the 2 markets with which I'm most familiar). I'm sure this figure is lower than the nice buildings in many cities, especially those with high labor costs. It's also a pretty good deal for a hot climate if electricity is included. And come on, man, you can't compare that to the lower HOA dues of a community of single family houses ... that's just plain ignorant. In a high rise the HOA is responsible for maintaining and operating the whole plant, where in a gated community generally they only do the grounds and common areas and guard house - huge difference, bud.

I own a house now but am likely to return to high rise living once my kids are off to college.