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Property destroyed at Rio,  need advice Property destroyed at Rio,  need advice

08-05-2017 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseJohnnyJimJack

tell them that unfortunately you're going to have to consult a lawyer if nothing more can be done.
And I am sure that they will tell him to please consult a lawyer so that the lawyer can confirm that the law is on Rio's side in this case.
Property destroyed at Rio,  need advice Quote
08-06-2017 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
And I am sure that they will tell him to please consult a lawyer so that the lawyer can confirm that the law is on Rio's side in this case.
Oh the liability limit. Oops, forgot that tidbit. Nvm lol.
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08-06-2017 , 11:29 AM
Maybe you could request that they pay you out with like $1500 in comp dollars? Talk to your host. You could buy another laptop with the comps from the gift shop? I know Harrah's properties sell Macbooks.
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08-06-2017 , 01:30 PM
When I used to shop at CET gift shops everything was around double the retail price; if still true, that wouldn't really help OP.
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08-07-2017 , 05:24 AM
Lots of crap advice in this thread.

I have personal experience with damaged property at the Rio, and can explain the process I went through.

In 2009, I was parked in the Rio outdoor parking lot during WSOP, when an unexpected thunderstorm blew in. The high winds threw some construction equipment (which was being used in the parking lot) into my car, causing about $650 worth of damage.

Laughably, the rope meant to tie down the equipment was also blown into my car, but it was untied, meaning that they never bothered to tie it down.

I simply wanted the $650 it would cost to fix my car. At first I got a little pushback, with claims that the storm was "an act of God", and therefore I was not entitled to compensation.

I countered that an act of God would include debris from outside the lot blowing into my car, but that their failure to secure their own construction equipment during a storm was clear negligence.

At that point, they handed it to their insurance company. The insurance company then tried to pass the buck to the construction company, but then quickly changed course and decided to handle it themselves.

They offered me $750 (sound familiar?) in exchange for my signing a document indicating that it would completely satisfy my claim. I accepted, and that was that.

Of course, my situation was simpler than yours, as my damages were below that magical $750 number, which is frequently the maximum they offer in these type of situations, due to the law already cited:

Quote:
The liability of the owner or keeper does not exceed the sum of $750 for any property, including, but not limited to, property which is not deposited in a safe or vault because it cannot easily fit within the safe or vault, of an individual patron or guest, unless the owner or keeper receives the property for deposit for safekeeping and consents to assume a liability greater than $750 for its theft, loss, damage or destruction in a written agreement in which the patron or guest specifies the value of the property.
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-...l#NRS651Sec010

NRS 650.010, section 4

In plain English, the above says, "The hotel is never responsible for more than $750 in damages due to theft/loss/destruction of your property, unless they consent to being liable to more when your stay begins."

So does that mean you're screwed if you take them to court?

Probably, but not certainly. This is because earlier portions of the same statute mention that these terms only apply "in absence of gross negligence on the part of the innkeeper".

You could argue in court that their plumbing being kept in such poor condition that the room floods constitutes gross negligence, but given the unpredictable nature of plumbing problems, your argument will likely be rejected.

Therefore, I would NOT recommend taking them to court. Furthermore, I would NOT recommend threatening them with lawyers, as some have suggested in this thread.

Lawyer threats can be very effective against individuals who fear expensive and time-consuming lawsuits. They are very ineffective against large corporations, who already have a team of lawyers working directly for them. In fact, such threats usually backfire, as this will cause the corporation to clam up, refuse to talk to you, and direct all future communication to their attorneys.

You do have one powerful weapon at your disposal, and that's the power of social media.

You're already using it by posting your story to 2+2. I will be glad to have you on my radio show, as well (PM if interested).

Call the Rio back and make sure you reach the hotel manager or someone else in a high management position. Tell them that you simply want to be made whole. Offer to provide them the proof of your laptop's retail value (or, alternately, the actual cost today of replacing it.) Tell them that you are not looking to make money from this, but simply want the identical laptop back which their plumbing ruined. State that the difference is fortunately not very much ($2100 versus $750), and that you will be happy to sign a waiver, giving up rights to all future claims from this incident.

Keep pressing your case. Repeat things like, "I just want what's fair", and "I just want to be exactly where I was before I checked in during that stay". Add statements like, "Some people try to use things like this to get rich. I just want what's right and fair." This will bolster your image in their eyes, because they deal with jerks all the time who feign "damages" of some sort in order to squeeze money out of them. Fortunately, there seems to be no question here that this actually happened, so only the amount of compensation is in question.

Most importantly, if they still refuse, make it clear that you are going to make a huge deal out of this on social media. Tell them you are going to post it everywhere, appear on well-rated YouTube channels and poker/gambling podcasts, and will be in contact with several Las Vegas television stations and newspapers about this.

You might also want to contact managers of the WSOP itself (PM me for info), and plead your case with them. However, I would save this for last, as it's really the hotel's problem, and not the WSOP's. However, the WSOP is still Caesars-owned and does have some pull if they feel this will harm their brand.

I had someone on my show who lost over $3000 because of the Rio's negligence a few years ago. In that case it was theft, and his case was better than yours (basically they double-checked-in another party to his room on accident, and that person stole from him), but he dealt with a similar response. At first they under-compensated him, but after he pressed them and threatened a social media blitz, they relented and made him whole.

Fortunately your damages are relatively low, so you have a good shot at getting them to change course if you apply the right pressure. If you were looking for something like $10k, you'd be screwed.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm rooting for you.

GL

Last edited by Kilowatt; 08-07-2017 at 05:37 AM.
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08-07-2017 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt


Most importantly, if they still refuse, make it clear that you are going to make a huge deal out of this on social media. Tell them you are going to post it everywhere, appear on well-rated YouTube channels and poker/gambling podcasts, and will be in contact with several Las Vegas television stations and newspapers about this.
What could go wrong with exercising your free speech?
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08-07-2017 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
What could go wrong with exercising your free speech?
Please don't scare the guy with this extreme cautionary tale.

In the article you linked, a couple seemingly developed a nonsensical vendetta against a wedding photography business, and put out a lot of effort to make false accusations against them in reviews.

In this case, there will be no false accusations, because the Rio has apparently already acknowledged that the room flood was their fault, and that this OP's laptop was destroyed by it.

Truth is an ironclad defense in court to any libel/slander claims.

The Rio could never successfully sue him for making this situation public, provided that the OP is truthful with all of his claims.

Could he get banned from Caesars properties? Possible, but unlikely. It would be a PR nightmare to ban someone who goes to the media because his laptop got destroyed by a room plumbing issue.
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08-07-2017 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
The Rio could never successfully sue him for making this situation public, provided that the OP is truthful with all of his claims.
And what is the truth, exactly? Rio has admitted fault and repaid OP to the fullest extent of the law.
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08-07-2017 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
And what is the truth, exactly? Rio has admitted fault and repaid OP to the fullest extent of the law.


There is no "fullest extent of the law" regarding how much a corporation can pay an individual for damages.

The Rio could pay OP a million dollars for this if it wanted.

The $750 "limit" has to do with their liability. The OP likely can't legally FORCE Rio to pay more than $750 (due to that law), but he can definitely pressure them to do so, especially since his losses were about triple of that $750 number, and Rio has admitted fault in the situation.

If Rio decides it's in their best interests (for PR reasons or otherwise) to pay him the full $2100, they can and will.
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08-07-2017 , 05:30 PM
They didn't admit "fault", they admitted liability. A water pipe breaking is nobody's fault. It just happens - copper pipe work hardens, etc.
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08-07-2017 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill
They didn't admit "fault", they admitted liability. A water pipe breaking is nobody's fault. It just happens - copper pipe work hardens, etc.
Why does the exact terminology even matter here?

It would matter if a lawsuit took place accusing them of negligence, but we've already concluded that a lawsuit (or even threats of one) is not the proper way to go.

So who cares?

Bottom line is that the social media blitz threat might be enough to get him paid (honestly it's his best play), and he's not opening himself to any kind of libel/slander liability because he would simply be revealing facts which Rio has already acknowledged to be true.
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08-08-2017 , 01:09 AM
Liability and fault are two completely different things

Last edited by grando1.0; 08-08-2017 at 01:10 AM. Reason: Is it though?
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08-08-2017 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
Why does the exact terminology even matter here?

It would matter if a lawsuit took place accusing them of negligence, but we've already concluded that a lawsuit (or even threats of one) is not the proper way to go.

So who cares?

Bottom line is that the social media blitz threat might be enough to get him paid (honestly it's his best play), and he's not opening himself to any kind of libel/slander liability because he would simply be revealing facts which Rio has already acknowledged to be true.
Because when you say it was their fault, there was something Rio could have done to prevent it. You go around saying that and you open yourself up to the kind of action that Angus posted.
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08-08-2017 , 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill
Because when you say it was their fault, there was something Rio could have done to prevent it. You go around saying that and you open yourself up to the kind of action that Angus posted.
Zero chance that the Rio would sue this guy with the claim of, "You said we were at fault when in reality we only said we were liable."

That would be a PR nightmare for them beyond belief.

Time to take a step back into reality.
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08-08-2017 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
Bottom line is that the social media blitz threat might be enough to get him paid (honestly it's his best play), and he's not opening himself to any kind of libel/slander liability because he would simply be revealing facts which Rio has already acknowledged to be true.
Maybe you change your mind on that if somebody dragged your name in the mud.

who do you think pays in the end if hotels have to dish out more money in cases like this?
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08-08-2017 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
If Rio decides it's in their best interests (for PR reasons or otherwise) to pay him the full $2100, they can and will.
Correct.

So, now we get to the crux of the issue: what is the best way to convince Rio to pay money they are not legally obligated to pay?

Specifically, how many steps are there between the person who manages Rio's Twitter account and someone with $1,350 in discretionary budget authority; and how many steps are there between the person OP interacted with to get the first $750 and that same person with $1,350 in discretionary budget authority?
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08-08-2017 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
Why does the exact terminology even matter here?

It would matter if a lawsuit took place accusing them of negligence, but we've already concluded that a lawsuit (or even threats of one) is not the proper way to go.

So who cares?

Bottom line is that the social media blitz threat might be enough to get him paid (honestly it's his best play), and he's not opening himself to any kind of libel/slander liability because he would simply be revealing facts which Rio has already acknowledged to be true.
I once got a monthly subscription from a large company and was told that if I was not happy within the 1st 30 days that I could cancel and get a full refund.

After using it for a 2 to 3 weeks I was not happy at all and requested a refund and they stone walled saying I used it too much and no refund blah blah, I got I higher person and got the same response. Finally I got the top guy by email and he said the same thing.

I sent 1 last email back to the same top guy saying I can't believe a company would do business like that and treat their customers like that and I was going to go on all my social media accounts and let everyone know how I was treated.

In 5 minutes I got a reply back saying they would issue me a refund. lol
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08-08-2017 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron
I once got a monthly subscription from a large company and was told that if I was not happy within the 1st 30 days that I could cancel and get a full refund.

After using it for a 2 to 3 weeks I was not happy at all and requested a refund and they stone walled saying I used it too much and no refund blah blah, I got I higher person and got the same response. Finally I got the top guy by email and he said the same thing.

I sent 1 last email back to the same top guy saying I can't believe a company would do business like that and treat their customers like that and I was going to go on all my social media accounts and let everyone know how I was treated.

In 5 minutes I got a reply back saying they would issue me a refund. lol
Your example is totally different because the law is in your favor.

In the OP's scenario, if he tweets mean things and they will respond "@op your claim was accepted and paid in full. case closed. http://whateverthewebsiteisforthesta...lity/stfu.html take it up with the nevada state legislature if you have further questions"
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08-10-2017 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
Correct.

So, now we get to the crux of the issue: what is the best way to convince Rio to pay money they are not legally obligated to pay?

Specifically, how many steps are there between the person who manages Rio's Twitter account and someone with $1,350 in discretionary budget authority; and how many steps are there between the person OP interacted with to get the first $750 and that same person with $1,350 in discretionary budget authority?
Sounds like the OP needs to research the Rio's management hierarchy and send his social media threat to several of them. Wishing to avoid higher potential future revenue losses from bad PR, they'll be sure to get it to the correct person.
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08-14-2017 , 01:08 PM
Hey guys sorry for the lack of updates I've just been busy lately and it took a bit of phone tag to get back in touch with my case manager.

I basically caught her lying red handed about the whole "$750 is the most we can pay you by law" bit, after which she quickly pivoted to "$750 is the most I'm authorized to give you but you can talk to the Rio directly about more possible refunds" even though they'd already said no to her. She told me I should get proof the laptop is broken so now I have to find time to bring it to a shop for diagnosis, which I'll have to ask them to pay for as well. If only they had cared in the least about my broken items while I was there reporting it to them they could have seen it for themselves.

Anyway I had her send me the $750 check since I knew it would take forever. She assured me the case isn't settled in any way unless I actually cash it (I recorded that to be safe) so now I will now try to reason with the management at Rio. The laptop is several years old (they told me to write the initial purchase amount and nothing about length of ownership on the report so I don't think they account for this), so I would be willing to accept less than what I paid for it. I just want to not feel completely cheated. I'll let you know it goes.

Thanks for the offer to be on your show and the encouragement Kilowatt, but a social media blitz just isn't my style unfortunately and I'm a bit too afraid of the wrath of Caesars. The risk/reward balance just isn't there for me right now, so I must decline.

Last edited by deleted acct; 08-14-2017 at 01:16 PM.
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08-14-2017 , 09:49 PM
IMO a laptop "several years old" is likely not worth $750. I'd stop there and say thank you.
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08-15-2017 , 08:01 AM
I've heard other stories of toilet plumbing issues in hotel rooms of casinos where large field MTTs were being played at at the time of the incident. Coincidence OP?
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08-15-2017 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerHero77
IMO a laptop "several years old" is likely not worth $750. I'd stop there and say thank you.
You're definitely within your rights to ask for more, but the probability of success is related to your negotiation skills.
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08-15-2017 , 07:36 PM
As a side note listen to the new episode of Druff & Friends.. He explains this situation in good detail. Shameless plug.
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