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Old 09-23-2011, 12:23 PM   #91
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

[x] cool TR

[ ] semi-degeneracy itt
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:37 PM   #92
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Day 6

"How did your brain even learn human speech?"
-Wash, Firefly

I wish that the above quote were going to lead me to some idiot I sat at the tables with. Sadly it does not; it's my way of berating myself for what was a bad day at the tables and what is not, I'm afraid, going to make for a particularly exciting TR.

So, it turns out that playing stakes above one's BR and combining it with ridiculous rungood for a week makes for a powerful recipe for extreme nittery. I know I'm being run over, as I'm 3bet by one of the regs on my left, but what does it matter, I can just wait for aces and run him over when I get them. That's an easy trap for your brain to fall into when you're catching a monster once every ten hands. When you go for eight hours almost completely card-dead, though, it comes to mind that sometimes you really do have to play your A game and rely on actual, solid decision-making.

5-10 at the B once again. I lost around $600 at the tables, a relatively minor loss for the stakes, but that doesn't really describe the thoroughness of the soul**** that I felt I'd experienced walking back to the hotel. I knew I was up against good players, who are by definition going to put you in tough spots and make very few mistakes, and for the past few days I've felt like I've held my own with them. I was running well, which accounts for my solid profits for the week, but I was also playing like I felt I belonged. Day 6 gave me no such impression. Part of it was a function of being completely card dead, part of it was a function of a thoroughly shot table image. Part of me knows that you sometimes just have to stand up to being 3bet and start 4betting back with your junk. The rest of me knows that a light 4betting range should still have some value, and I never had any, so I should partly be praising myself for disciplined play. But just as there's a fine line from aggro to spew, there's a fine line from disciplined play to nittery. I fear I crossed too far to that side, and that I gave up huge EV out of an unwillingness to gamble. At the same time, my preferred form of gambling rarely falls into the category of "praying for fold equity when your table image is completely in tatters".

Only a couple of hands to share; the rest were truly uninteresting. The first occurs within that context of a purely shot table image. I'd been folding for hours, it seemed, when I finally hit what felt like a good squeeze spot. An aggro late position player had bumped it to $30 and two aggro players on his left had called from position. I was in the small blind and resolved that whatever I saw, it was two black aces. What I actually saw was 59. I made it $110, with only $700 or so behind.

I'm looking to the original raiser, when I catch motion out of the corner of my eye to my left, and see the big blind reaching for bills. He's calling? Wait. No. Oh, you've got to be kidding me. Three bills, four oranges. It's folded to me and I give the World's Biggest Sigh, folding my trash hand face up. He smiles, and flips 5J into the muck.

"I hate you so much," I said to him. I've been playing like the World's Biggest Nit for hours, I finally make a move, and I'm ****ing cold 4bet out of the blinds on a complete stone bluff.

It was worthy of a laugh and I totally get the guy's thought process, and it's brilliant, understanding that I'm feeling completely card-dead and am bound to try to make something happen eventually. It's a dream squeeze spot, and he later said that he was going to do just what I did when I stole his thunder. Then he realized that I'm on a move a good enough percentage of the time to make the move anyway. It's something I would do from time to time online, less so in my live cash game experience because of course, at my regular game a 3bet pre is 95% the nuts. It's a very nice play and one that a lot of players never think to try.

Well-played, guy who is perhaps reading this thread, well-played.

I finally do get paid, with aces. I 3bet an EP raise to $100 against a player that has just joined the table, holding AA. He calls, the flop comes 887, and I'm donked into, $150. Calling feels like my only play, and I quickly make it. The turn is the J:diamonds:. Again he bets, this time $200. I have no idea wtf he could be holding - a smaller pair, like TT-KK, possibly meaning a turned boat? An eight? A club draw? All seem possible, none seem consistent with wanting so badly to seize the lead. The river is a bricked offsuit 4. Same bet, $200. "An eight? Really?" I wonder out loud, but no, I have to believe he's putting me on a big pair and would bet more for pure value. This smells of "I'm willing to spend $200 to get to showdown, and am never ever calling a raise" - a classic blocking bet, in other words. I'm too curious, and probably miss some value by just calling. He shows down TT, which I think was a bit bizarrely played. QQ or even KK I would completely understand, but TT in that spot seems bizarre.

I shrug as the $1300 pot is shipped my way, only in retrospect realizing that my nonchalance as to a pot that size could possibly mean I might be getting used to the stakes after all. In any case, the day felt like karmic retribution for several days of extended rungood and I hope that the bad play that resulted was just a temporary malady. I could perhaps use a day off, but it's the weekend again, and there's only a few days left in the trip. Nonetheless it's pretty likely to be a short session on Day 7.

Day 6 Total: -$595
Trip Total: +$4063
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:43 PM   #93
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Really wish I had read this thread before I played yesterday (as opposed to during the session; reading this voluminous thread at the table was a pretty big distraction). I def would've pulled the trigger on CRAI river on that 8854ccc (or was it 8554?) Q board had I known it might get a mention in this thread. Also it was probably marginally +EV against your range, if not against your actual hand (if you really had what you said you had). Oh well I'm a tilt-prone nit and would've leapt off a bridge if you snapcalled queens full so it was probably for the best.

You play well, and it's good having another nerd at the table. GL the rest of the trip (except in pots against me).
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:50 PM   #94
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

def shove river in the last hand.
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Old 09-23-2011, 05:07 PM   #95
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Sounds like you're more than holding your own at the tables so kudos for that.

The A6 hand from day 6 does seem pretty spewy to me but maybe that's because I only play at the micros and no-ones ever folding an overpair to a turn minraise there.

GL
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:35 AM   #96
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

One of the most well written TR ever. Very nice OP.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:50 AM   #97
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBump View Post
Sounds like you're more than holding your own at the tables so kudos for that.

The A6 hand from day 6 does seem pretty spewy to me but maybe that's because I only play at the micros and no-ones ever folding an overpair to a turn minraise there.

GL
most of the folds he's lookin' to get with that MR aren't on the turn..
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:33 AM   #98
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

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most of the folds he's lookin' to get with that MR aren't on the turn..
Yes, I understand that it was setting up the river push. It's a gutsy move that would only work against a good thinking player.

My point was at the games I play, you wouldn't even get to the river because the villain would push over the top there with his overpair.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:35 AM   #99
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Very entertaining. Gl today.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:51 PM   #100
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

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Really wish I had read this thread before I played yesterday (as opposed to during the session; reading this voluminous thread at the table was a pretty big distraction). I def would've pulled the trigger on CRAI river on that 8854ccc (or was it 8554?) Q board had I known it might get a mention in this thread. Also it was probably marginally +EV against your range, if not against your actual hand (if you really had what you said you had). Oh well I'm a tilt-prone nit and would've leapt off a bridge if you snapcalled queens full so it was probably for the best.

You play well, and it's good having another nerd at the table. GL the rest of the trip (except in pots against me).
I was wondering when I would be facing someone who'd read the thread. That has to be so ridiculously -EV for me, but everyone knows that TR=rungood so I guess it makes up for it. For any interested in the hand being described from my perspective, I raised AA from LP, good reg calls from - either the sb or bb, I forget, the flop came 885 with two clubs, and he check-called two streets after the 4 came on the turn. River was an offsuit queen and I went for a third street of value, villain hemmed and hawed for a while and folded, later pondering what I'd have done if he had CRAI'd. I concluded that I was too short for it to work and that I'd have almost certainly puke/called.

Also, we agreed that vertical expansion to one's chipstack is superior to horizontal. That's just science. You can't argue with science.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:33 PM   #101
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Excellent TR so far - keep it up!
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:19 PM   #102
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

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Originally Posted by Shaffer View Post
I was wondering when I would be facing someone who'd read the thread. That has to be so ridiculously -EV for me, but everyone knows that TR=rungood so I guess it makes up for it. For any interested in the hand being described from my perspective, I raised AA from LP, good reg calls from - either the sb or bb, I forget, the flop came 885 with two clubs, and he check-called two streets after the 4 came on the turn. River was an offsuit queen and I went for a third street of value, villain hemmed and hawed for a while and folded, later pondering what I'd have done if he had CRAI'd. I concluded that I was too short for it to work and that I'd have almost certainly puke/called.

Also, we agreed that vertical expansion to one's chipstack is superior to horizontal. That's just science. You can't argue with science.
Sweet! A mention in the thread (as a "good reg" at that, thanks!) and I didn't even have to blast off $450 more to get it! Ego freeroll ftw! In that hand I really did have 77 with the 7. I think pre and flop calls are fairly standard. Turn I was a bit reluctant to call but did so anyway, mainly because 1) OMG STRAIGHT FLUSH DRAW and 2) when I had played with you the day before you had barreled twice and given up on the river (i think in position) in a spot where I prob would've considered folding to a third barrel, so I thought it had some decent chance of happening again. Maybe not enough to justify the call given the immediate odds, but it was close enough.

When the river was a red queen and you fired again, it seemed like a push/fold decision. To be honest about my wrong-thinking and ego-douche-guided play, my first thought was to CRAI and show if you folded and say something stupid like "sevens sure are running good for me today hurrrrrr" (cause of that hand earlier against the loose British guy). I think the fold might have also been guided by wrong-thinking of a different sort, of the "I don't want to lose this big pot against a good player and feel dumb/tilted the rest of the session" variety. It's amazing how much one's decision process can be dominated by such stupid illogical bull****.

Anyway, when I wasn't being neurotic and actually tried to think the hand through, my river thought process was something like this: I think you're vbetting wide enough to take calling out of the equation entirely, so that leaves jamming or folding. On the jamming side, I would definitely play 88 and 55 identically, so I should prob have some bluff hand in there for balance, and that wide-ish vbet range means there are more potential bet-fold hands. Also, you had just seen me CRAI river with a boat. On the folding side, I don't know if you think I would play those hands identically, or if you think I would ever play a flush this way. Ultimately, it just seemed like you'd be getting too good a price and you'd perceive my range as polarized to boats+/spaz so you'd talk yourself into a call. Meh, nh.

btw forgot to mention it in the earlier post but thanks for showing that 8 on the K88Q board . Also forgot to mention that I thought the 95o hand was spewy if Bobby (white haired guy with glasses) was one of the flatters, but probably fine otherwise. Unlucky that it turned into a leveling war; those are tough to win with the 95o.

Oh, also, I don't think this TR is all that -EV if your opponents read on their phones at the table. While reading it, I paid scant attention to the action and played extra poorly as a result; that poor play should theoretically result in an expectation boost for you. When I went to take a walk it was less to stop steaming and more to finish reading the thread so I could get back to paying attention.

And while I agree with vertical expansion being superior to horizontal in theory, it gets tricky with someone as lacking in grace and coordination as me. I see those 80+ chip towers (more often in mtts) and wonder how they go more than a minute without some errant elbow causing catastrophic collapse.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:28 PM   #103
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Fyi for anyone anxiously awaiting the next installment, it's typed up and on my hard drive but the wireless at the IP is truly crap so it's staying there for now. Sad state of affairs when my phone has a better internet cnxn.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:13 PM   #104
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

if you want to post, there's a starbucks in the mirage (and i think all other ones as well) with free wifi. i'm enjoying this TR.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:54 PM   #105
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Re: My foray into semi-degeneracy: 11 Days in Vegas (TLDR TR)

Day 7

"I've been been listening to my gut since I was fourteen years old, and frankly speaking, I've come to the conclusion that my guts have **** for brains."
-Rob, High Fidelity

I planned on making it a short day yesterday. Really, I did. Sometimes things work out that way, sometimes they don't. There's a reason nobody got up from that table for over two hours, except for 1-hand bathroom breaks.

The poker room at the B is feeling more and more familiar. The nice floor lady knows my name, many of the regs at the 5-10 know my game, to the fish it feels like I'm already just another one of the mines in the minefield. The insecurity that plauged yesterday's game is gone, I'm rested and surprisingly refreshed. It's the weekend, and the weekend means fish.

The table I'm seated at seems considerably weaker than yesterday's, with several tourists, several bad regs, nobody that's just spewing from the start but multiple players that are simply playing wait-for-coolers and seem quite unaccustomed to dealing with the pressures that come from facing strong players. The limp-call, check-call, check-fold line is very much in effect, and within an hour I'm pumped up over $1k without ever seeing a showdown. No, I saw one showdown. I raised TJ from LP and a spewy Norweigan called from the BB. We check/checked a flop of KJ5, and he check-called a 6 turn. The river came the K and he randomly donked out $120. I turbo snapcalled and he mucked.

I noted that the Norweigan had ordered a second Corona after finishing his first and that the player on his left, another European of questionable poker skill - he was the guy in the TT vs. AA hand yesterday that strangely donked out three streets in a 3bet pot - seemed like he had his foot on the gas but no real hand on the steering wheel. I keep an eye out for the opening of any seats.

A new player, young kid, had sat down at the table and opened the button to $30. Sensing an opportunity to provide context-free resistance I made it $100 to go from the BB holding T6. He called, giving me a little sadface on the inside, but the flop came better than I deserved, K52. Lots of ways to win this pot, I decided, and bet out for $140. He thought for a moment and called. Stubborn pocket pair, I thought. The turn was the A and I decided I had to fire out again. This time I made it $280. He called again. The stubborn pair hypothesis seemingly falsified, I noted only that the river was a red brick, and checked. He insta-checked back. "Ten high," I announced. He tabled pocket tens. "Oh, you sicko," I chided/praised. He dragged down a substantial pot and took a bit of my ego with it. Sadly he moved tables immediately after and I had no chance for exacting any revenge. (Frankly I think his turn call was, on balance, poor, but it worked out this time so who am I to judge?)

I get my chance and move two seats to the left of the Norweigan, who was on his third Corona, knowing that this was a budding opportunity. Still, I dropped a few more small-to-medium pots, nothing of note, and my stack dwindled down to about where it started, at $1k.

A pot was five-way limped to me with 45 in LP, so I limped along. The button, a young player, seemed good, limped along, and we see the flop seven-handed. It's 346 and I'm feeling pretty good about the world. Checked to me I make it $50 to go, and only the button calls. The turn is the 8, and I see no reason to stop firing, since I've got a pretty good opportunity to put a lot of heat on diamond draws and other one pair hands. $80 is the bet. Villain ponders for a moment and raises to $280.

My initial reaction is diamond draw, perhaps caught the 8. Villain could have flopped the nuts, or have a combo-ish draw like mine, or could have diamonds and be doing what I've done a few times over the course of the TR, using a turn move to give himself another way to win. This is 0% set, almost 0% two-pair (unless, sickly, he turned it), and on balance I think a shove is good. This folds out essentially everything, except for a turned top two pair or the flopped stone cold nuts, which most players are raising on this flop anyway. "I'm all in," I announce, repping what I felt was a perfectly legit set or nut straight.

Villain, of course, instacalls. "Flopped the nuts?" I ask. He nods. I shake my head. "Chop outs. Come on, seven, one time." Sadly the river brings paint and just like that, a stack is shipped elsewhere.

My immediate judgment was that it was a horrible spew play, but after sleeping on it I feel a little better, that there really are quite a few hands he's raising that I'm pushing off with the shove. It's still probably spew, but it's not a 100% gift-wrapped buy-in, I think. Anyway, it's still back into the wallet for $1k in bills. "Player checks on table 19!"

An hour later. The corona count of the already-spewy Norweigan is past 6, and he's entering Prime Time and apparently has money to burn, talking about how he wasn't sure how much money he spent on a ring that he just bought, but that it was at least $5k. After three limpers he makes it $30. Eager to play pots with him I call with 7J, when to my left the middle-aged asian lady makes it $80 to go. Spewdrunk calls, and I feel too priced in, even though asian lady has only about $300 or so behind.

I flop far better than I deserve, 78T, it's check check and sure enough the asian lady puts her last $300 into the middle. I call, obviously, and the turn and river brick out completely, allowing her queens to hold.

Searching for spots and barely finding any can be expensive, as it turns out, though, and for a couple of hours I'm limping and calling behind Spewdrunk with almost every feature; he is playing every hand and taking most past the turn. Finally, after a couple of hours of slowly bleeding money and missing flops, I catch 89 in a pot that was raised to $30 by Spewdrunk and had roughly 6 callers. The flop came 789, it's checked to me, and I bet out $150. Spewdrunk calls, as he always did. The turn was the K, and Spewdrunk check-calls again, this time $280. Then the river comes, and it's pretty much a disaster: K. Worse, Spewdrunk leads out, just reaching to his stack of bills and putting them into the middle.

It was something he'd done a few times, and every time it had been a bluff. Check-call, check-call, donk out for all his bills, not caring how many there were. I ask the dealer to count them. It's $500. I sigh. "That was an awful river," I say, "But I think I have to call." Nervously I put a stack across the line. He shakes his head, and says "I just have a nine." I sigh. "Kicker?" I ask. He shakes his head, and tables 96o. I show my counterfeited hand, and we chop it up. I get nods and raised eyebrows from much of the rest of the table.

The asian lady dropped a huge pot to the player in seat 7, claiming KK on an AAK8x board. Seat 7 showed quad aces. Then, no more than two rotations later, Seay 7 spewmonkeyed almost $2k to the european lady on my immediate right, who was the World's Biggest Nit and had 4bet huge after an EP open. Seat 7 5bet shoved over the top with what had to have been KK, and the european lady wound up making quad aces herself. Seat 7, steaming, got up and left, and was replaced by the player that would ultimately become Spewdrunk's eventual giftee. First Spewdrunk made a ridiculous overshove on a 678T board, maybe a relative $2100 into $200 (at this point Spewdrunk had won several pots in a row and was pumped up over $2500). The giftee's eyes went wide, he-rechecked his cards, and called, holding the 9 for the straight flush. Spewdrunk tabled 29, and laughed, saying he'd misread his hand and thought that it was him with the straight flush. After giving the rest away elsewhere, he had to retrieve more cash and bought back in for another $1500. This time several bets went in on a flop of AK2, again between Spewdrunk and the Giftee. The turn paired the 2 and another big bet went in. The river was yet another 2, Spewdrunk shoved, and Giftee instacalled, holding A2 for quads yet again. Spewdrunk held AQ this time.

Finally, after another couple hours or so, Spewdrunk called it quits, and the table quickly broke at the next time drop. It was about midnight, and I'd made what I vowed would be a short session into one that lasted ten hours, but it was prolonged by a good opportunity that unfortunately didn't go my way. I was stuck about $2k at my low point, but managed to get good value in a couple of hands, one where I flopped a flush with the 78, another where I trapped a bad reg for an extra bet with AK on an AK8 flop. That brought my losses back under $1k, and it was past the partiers and back to the Hash House for what I felt was necessary: an enormous pancake for dinner and a couple of rum and cokes. I chatted with the pretty girl behind the bar again, getting a bit of a conversation going, and eventually retired back to my room.

Day 7 Total: -$944
Trip Total: +$3119

Last edited by Shaffer; 09-25-2011 at 12:00 AM.
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