You got the time to represent all poker players and pick a fight and try spreading the word about this...great, go for it. I frankly will not devote time to this helpless cause since all I want is my $$$$ back. I'll do it the easier way till I get my money back at the expense of the casino employees. If you feel it was unfair as a casino employee, go and work somewhere that treats poker players better and you will get all of my tips.

That statement pretty much is a window into your soul and says everything about you that anyone would ever need to know.

I'm not a casino worker; I'm a retired millionaire with a $100k pension, but nice try, lol. I don't need to work for tips, but I do care about those who do and those who are treated unfairly by patrons without any sense of ethics or morality.

I didn't mean you are a dealer, I meant anyone who is a dealer in general is a representative of their employer. If their employer does something unethical that they disagree with, they can choose to switch employers. Funny thing is most people will jut shrug it off since changing employers is risky and a lot of work. Same for me, fighting a big fight takes time and I rather deal with it more efficiently to simply recoup my losses.

I spoke with 2 floors at MGM properties and they said it was above their heads and shrugged me off. That is why I am responding my my fashion. I will show them (MGM employees) the same attitude they showed me.

Btw, nice brag about your financial status. Have you thought that for a retired millionaire with a 100K pension, a few hundred dollars is less meaningful than for someone less well off and that would explain a difference in points of view?

If you can see my soul from a sarcastic statement posted in a forum, I better watch out for you at the tables because you read people too well.

Mrducks: talking about tipping never gets anywhere. Tipping confirmed broken in the US

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It's still a wrong-headed approach to take it out on the rank and file. It's like getting mad at the place and deciding to hurt them by taking a dump on the floor, knowing that some poor janitor will have to clean it up.

As lousy and sleazy of a thing the casino did here, they still don't owe you anything and you're acting like they took money out of your pocket.

In my opinion, that's exactly what they did - took money out of my pocket. I earned those comps, confirmed that they don't expire, and intended to spend them on a future trip to Vegas.

How can you say it wasn't a money grab?

You can debate whether this guy is justified in his plan to withhold tips, but you don't need to distort the facts to make your point.

I think if you are going to vote with your money, your voice is heard better by where you spend your dollars, not where you withhold your tips..

They did take money right out of my pocket! I earned those comps on a mutual agreement that they would not expire and I still had time to use them. Instead of giving me a warning that they are changing our agreement, they just took the money and told me "Too bad"

With that attitude, I will take my money back from someone at MGM properties and unfortunately the dealers are the first line of contact representing that corporation.

Playing the side of the casino here for a moment. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Previously poker comps did not expire. Now they are the same as other comps. If I was the casino boss, I would have done this way sooner. I imagine most poker players are worthless to a casino. I am not talking about a rec who gambles on everything, but the sort of players who save up comps for a nice hotel stay are probably shrewd people who do not represent value to the casino. I think the comps for poker players are already too high for the actual profit the casino makes on a poker room. I know you're probably going to talk about rake and how its high yadda yadda... but the truth is, on a $ per sq ft basis, the poker room probably makes less than any other part of the gaming floor ainec.

Which begs the question, why do casinos even have a poker room? I imagine some bean counters somewhere have done the maths (not math) and come to the same conclusion, and for the life of me, I cant understand why more poker rooms haven't disappeared. Unless I'm missing something.

This whole scenario is the same as PS and Super Nova Elite changes.

I think most people in this thread don't disagree with what you are saying. I don't mind that the comps now expire within a year which is plenty of time. Our problem is that when they made the change, they didn't give us warning of a month or a few months to come into the casino and use up our soon to expire comps.

If we are saving them up based on the agreement that they never expire, it is unfair to change the agreement without ANY warning at all and blank out hundreds of dollars of comps. If they got rid of poker comps all together, it is their right and I would adjust my play accordingly, but to STEAL the money without warning is wrong and that is why so many people are upset.

The reason casinos have poker rooms is to provide ALL forms of gambling to their customers so that a whale doesn't go off property for an hour or two of poker and end up busting and then tilting off thousands and thousands of dollars in the pit only to be off property at one of their competitors. So they offer poker so you don't have to leave the property for anything.

Some casinos like Cosmo, don't have a poker room and are their competitors are watching to see how that works out for them.

Or like us...we're locals, and hubby plays poker for a living. He saves up his comp dollars so that we can treat friends and family to nice meals when they visit. He had hundreds of dollars of comps spread out over several MGM Properties that are now gone. He's understandably pissed.

It's one thing if MGM decides to wipe out the comps and tell everybody beforehand, so that people have some time to use them up. It's a whole different story that they did it without a peep to anyone. Combined with the parking fees, are they deliberately trying to decimate their customer base?

Lol. You want the dealers to find new jobs because their employer screwed you over. Yes they can choose to switch employers, but why should they fight the fight for you? What good would it do them?

How about you go play elsewhere, to show your dissatisfaction with being screwed over? Or is that too hard for you?

It is hard to just play elsewhere if the games you like are only spread at one particular casino in Vegas, especially for LHE at Bellagio.

Do you also plan to withhold tipping the cocktail waitresses? If not, why not? What would be the rationale for treating them differently?

And just out of curiosity, do you plan to announce to the dealers (and the cocktail waitresses, if applicable) exactly why you are "unfortunately" not tipping them?

While I agree MGM is screwing people, I'd like to point out that "for profit corporation with monopoly on an inelastic market screws customers" isn't a surprise.

And while I generally disapprove of cross-thread commenting, didn't I specifically point out in the Venetian thread that hoping the Venetian poker room failed left poker players with a huge amount of covariance at MGM rooms?

All these calls to boycott MGM would be more credible if people hadn't spent so much time ****ting on CET and Venetian/LVS over the past few years. Now you're gonna have to play 1/2 NL at Harrah's or kneel before your MGM overlords.

Sure, CET and LVS are for profit companies too, and they've done terrible things (and probably will in the future too). But at least you'd have a ballot on which to cast your vote.

They have a poker room for the same reason they have blackjack tables. It's a prestige thing that lends a qualitative improvement to the gambling experience (despite the quantitative cost).

Of course, when that cost gets too big (or a big opportunity comes up), the poker room will close. And I agree the number of rooms is above equilibrium right now and there will be closings in the future.

What's Venetian doing with its room anyway? Part of it was blocked off and I wonder if they are going to make the room smaller. I still notice players around town who think Venetian is one of the "cool" rooms to play in that have no idea about the decrease in rake/comps. But this will get their attention.

This latest change doesn't just affect customers. Employees are also impacted. They are the ones who have to deal with the complaints and the lower number of tips.

I see people make similar statements to yours about poker players all the time. But when I play it isn't all regs or OMC nits who don't lose money anywhere else in the casino. When I sit down at the table it's not unusual to see 8-9 new faces. So maybe these "poker players" are a lot of times also going to gamble and spend money in other parts of the casino, not just poker. I haven't seen any proof that poker players are all nits. It's all just assertions. It also seems pretty common on these forums (and at the table) for poker players to make fun of the nits. So even a lot of the poker players don't like nits.

When I sit down and play I'm more likely to see a fish than someone who is a complete nit. My guess is having a poker room brings more of these fish into the casino.

Not sure if this was mostly directed at me, or in general, but I certainly haven't been calling for any boycott of MGM rooms. I was disturbed when I heard that they would start charging for parking, but they did the poker regulars right by giving us upgraded players cards. I'm disappointed by the comps now expiring, but I didn't personally lose any. I don't blame others for being mad about it, but it appears the decision was made way over the heads of the poker room managers so tough to blame them for it.

And I don't recall anyone calling for a boycott of CET rooms, although possibly they did of certain rooms when the rake went up in some of them a few years ago. In the last year they have been pretty good to players, dropping the rake in some of the rooms, offering free buffets for awhile, etc. We had a 10/20 mixed game going at Harrah's for several months, and they gave us only $3 rake, and lower when shorthanded, which was awesome. They also have the most flexible comps; can use easily with their cards at any of their casinos, and comps don't expire as long as you earn a little every 6 months.

Unfortunately, CET rooms have never had any LHE games above 4/8 AFAIK, and they haven't been getting any mixed games going lately. I personally gave my support to some online mixed game players for trying to get games going at Caesars, as it is a nice, conveniently located room, and offers low rake. Hasn't happened yet though.

Even before these changes, I would have been spreading my play around if it were possible for me to do so while playing games I like (limit poker). I have never cared for Bellagio very much, but for whatever reason the games accumulate there, so that's where I almost always play.

My point is, these 8-9 new faces are not playing for comps they can save up, they already expect them to expire the same time as all the others. So this change does not really impact them in a way they are aware of.

I get all the points about attracting nits to the poker room and hope the spunk some money on the tables and slots. I also get that the whale might donk off chunks after busting a cash game, but the whale scenario may only apply at the nice casinos. I can't see bill perkins playing cash at excalibur and then dropping a mill on the craps table. But lets say he did, does that generate more money than if the poker room was just filled with slots 24/7? I am not sure. FWIW the poker room at excalibur is fairly large compared to some others.

If you don't care about other human beings then screwing customers makes more sense. I agree with that. And unfortunately some people are this way.

Imagine a poker player behaving the same way and you'll see someone stiffing dealers and waitresses, angling, slowrolling and talking trash if he thinks it will tilt an opponent and be +EV, cheating, etc.

If you don't have regs, good luck getting games started for the tourists to even sit in.

Golden rule of poker business: it takes a game to get a game. Critical mass and all that.



Update on Aria getting our money back: they're still waiting for the authority to do so, but seem sincere in their efforts and concern.

Update on Bellagio getting our money back: still DGAF or still helpless, whatever.

Are there attempts at other rooms to get our comps back as well? Or just Aria and Bellagio. I would assume its all rooms but who the f knows with mlife