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-   -   Do Prop Players Still Exist (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/108/las-vegas-lifestyle/do-prop-players-still-exist-732029/)

Tragichero 03-10-2010 07:57 PM

Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
I don't know if I'm working that right, but I have been doing a lot of reading and researching on "known" poker players and have read about how a lot of them started as "prop" players. I now understand what all that means, and I guess I'm just asking do "prop" players still exist in Vegas?

I read one place (which I can't find now) that says prop players generally pay around 15 an hour over 6 hour shifts, but you use your own money to buy-in and are required to use your own money if you are felted. I know their are a lot of dealers here, so I'm hoping they could give me more information about this.

Moneyline 03-10-2010 08:20 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Yeah, they exist. Mostly it's dealers who are allowed to play while on the clock. Luxor, Hard Rock, Bellagio, Monte Carlo, and probably many others do this. There was some Boulder Strip place that placed an ad about hiring a prop player a year or two ago. IIRC the pay was minimum wage +benefits. Both the Hilton and Tropicana used prop players before they closed their poker rooms. Harrah's pays players to play on dayshift out of jackpot money. Hard Rock pays players to play on graveyard shift with house money. Both of those are promotions rather than typical prop arrangements.

ImStillBen 03-11-2010 02:58 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Min wage plus benefits is a pretty good deal.

pig4bill 03-11-2010 04:44 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyline (Post 17396732)
Yeah, they exist. Mostly it's dealers who are allowed to play while on the clock. Luxor, Hard Rock, Bellagio, Monte Carlo, and probably many others do this. There was some Boulder Strip place that placed an ad about hiring a prop player a year or two ago. IIRC the pay was minimum wage +benefits. Both the Hilton and Tropicana used prop players before they closed their poker rooms. Harrah's pays players to play on dayshift out of jackpot money. Hard Rock pays players to play on graveyard shift with house money. Both of those are promotions rather than typical prop arrangements.

Most of that does not describe real prop players. Prop players are directed by the casino to play in specific games. I've never seen anybody that identified themself as a prop in Vegas. Maybe they aren't required to. In California they have to wear a badge.

bosox15 03-11-2010 05:14 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pig4bill (Post 17406083)
Most of that does not describe real prop players. Prop players are directed by the casino to play in specific games. I've never seen anybody that identified themself as a prop in Vegas. Maybe they aren't required to. In California they have to wear a badge.

This is only true in some cities. At one card room I play the props must wear a badge, another one about 10 miles away (but in a different city) they don't have to wear badges.

Moneyline 03-11-2010 05:56 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pig4bill (Post 17406083)
Most of that does not describe real prop players. Prop players are directed by the casino to play in specific games. I've never seen anybody that identified themself as a prop in Vegas. Maybe they aren't required to. In California they have to wear a badge.


I'm sure the rules vary from place to place, but in some rooms dealers may have to sit in or leave certain games if they're playing on the clock. I remember seeing dealers getting booted out of games at Luxor when the table filled up and got a list.

As far as identifying props goes, they're required to tell people they're props if asked. I saw this happen with a prop at the Hilton, but he wore no badge or uniform other than his hoodie, ipod, and sunglasses.

zaah1 03-11-2010 11:47 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
I had once heard that Props were not allowed to Check-Raise, though it might have been specific to one room. Any truth to this?

Photoc 03-11-2010 04:30 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zaah1 (Post 17410696)
I had once heard that Props were not allowed to Check-Raise, though it might have been specific to one room. Any truth to this?

Shills are not allowed to check raise. No one uses shills.

Props are.

Vlorg 03-11-2010 04:50 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Photoc (Post 17416652)
Shills are not allowed to check raise. No one uses shills.

Props are.

At Arizona Charlie's about two years ago the manager/floor would sit in the games and I was pretty sure he was playing with house money. He was the only manager on duty too.

I seemed to recall there might have been a rule that he couldn't sit down at an empty seat but was allowed to 'play over' a players chips if they had left to go eat or take a long break.

Smoking was still allowed too (but not chewing).

pflwardog 03-11-2010 05:34 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Photoc (Post 17416652)
Shills are not allowed to check raise. No one uses shills.

Props are.

What is a shill?

eco74 03-11-2010 06:06 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pig4bill (Post 17406083)
In California they have to wear a badge.

Not in LA.

callipygian 03-11-2010 10:53 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pflwardog (Post 17418295)
What is a shill?

An employee (not necessarily an existing employee such as a dealer - it can be a special position) who's playing with house money. A prop is an employee who's playing with their own money.

mojojo16 03-12-2010 02:31 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Do shills and props get to keep the money they've won?

demarius12 03-12-2010 11:25 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
I was told that props are now allowed in Nevada.

My source is only semi-reliable though.

Photoc 03-12-2010 11:48 AM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by demarius12 (Post 17434237)
I was told that props are now allowed in Nevada.

My source is only semi-reliable though.

They've always been allowed. It's not something new. They've been used for 40 years or more out here.

Tragichero 03-12-2010 12:17 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Thanks for all the reply's guys. I am moving out there (most likely) in May, and after covering the WSOP (52 straight nights, yikes) I was thinking of getting another "job" and was wondering about doing this. I read about a guy on the other poker forum (through search, not a member) that he used to work as one for 15/hr, 6 hour shifts, and was paid even if he wasn't seated at a game.

In other words, he just had to be there 6 hours at a time. That to me seemed pretty sweet. However, I don't know if he was also a dealer, nor did I really understand the time line of when he did it.

I think I like some of the other "comps" you get for playing, like at Harrah's, and maybe I'll check that out, but not sure I'm really ready to pursue something like this for a "job." I like reading about this topic though, so please feel free to keep it going, and thanks again.

callipygian 03-15-2010 03:06 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mojojo16 (Post 17428642)
Do shills and props get to keep the money they've won?

Props, yes.
Shills, I don't know.

Stinky Stu 03-16-2010 03:01 PM

Re: Do Prop Players Still Exist
 
Many years ago, I used to play in a game in Vegas that would end up being all shills and prop players except for me and one other guy and an occasional straggler. It was great. We would play till dawn the the props/shills would help me learn the game and explain why they did what they did after the hands were over.

Ah, the good old days...


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