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Old 06-14-2012, 02:46 PM   #51
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Posted a hand in the small stakes PLO forum for those interested:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38...-draw-1210859/
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:53 PM   #52
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

the hearts are worrisome for sure, and I am sure you are probably up against it with that repot. HOWEVER, with only 250'ish behind I think I might be calling here.

I might have checked that flop with no heart in my hand.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:10 PM   #53
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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the hearts are worrisome for sure, and I am sure you are probably up against it with that repot. HOWEVER, with only 250'ish behind I think I might be calling here.

I might have checked that flop with no heart in my hand.
Yea, my feeling after the hand was that I should have called once I lead out, but that the best play was to check. Of course I folded and the re-potter took it down.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:34 PM   #54
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Started my day at the Aria yesterday. The list was fairly long for 1/3 PLO so I played about an hour of 2/5 nl while I waited. The table was pretty good but I really didn't get into many hands during the hour. I lost one hand where I made a hero call (this means calling with a hand that can only be good if the player that is betting is bluffing) with pocket 5's. Unfortunately my opponent had turned 3rd pair of 8's into a bluff and took down the pot.

When my name got called for the 1/3 PLO I headed right over there. Pretty much just hung around my starting stack for an hour and half and then lost to a woman who called pot sized bets on the flop and turn with the nut flush draw. It got there on the river and I had the second nut flush so I called off the rest of her stack on the river. There are times when the second nut flush should fold on the river but I was getting over 5-1 on a call so I don't think folding would have been correct.

Instead of re-buying I decided to take a break for dinner. Checked my phone and noticed that the Venetian was running a 1-2 PLO8 game. I decided to head over there for dinner and then play that game. PLO8, or PLO hi/lo 8 or better is a game played similar to PLO but instead of the pot going to the best poker hand, it is split between the best "hi" hand and the best "lo" hand. The "hi" hand is just like regular poker, but the "lo" side goes to the player with the best lo hand which is made by having 5 unpaired cards 8 or below. Therefore, the best lo hand is 5432A. If no player has a lo then the whole pot goes to the best hi hand.

When I got to the Venetian there was only one seat left so I decided to lock it up and then order dinner from the table, something I'm not usually a big fan of. The game was really good in the beginning because a few people at the table just didn't know how hi/lo works and were making lots of mistakes. Often people would put in huge amounts of money when they only had a chance at half the pot, whereas the goal is to scoop the whole pot. Unfortunately I got quartered twice (this means I lost the hi half and tied for the lo half so I only got a quarter of the pot) and about 2 hours after I sat down most of the bad players were gone and there wasn't much money to be made. Around 11:30 I left after 3 hours in the game down a little from the pots I got quartered in.

Today I'm going to change things up and play that 2pm deep stack event at the Rio. Last night it got 1299 entrants and I've heard it attracts a ton of bad players. Though I'd prefer to play satellites, with the number and quality of entrants the 2pm has been getting I can't justify playing a satellite with 50 players with this tournament running next to it. Its a really long tournament, running until 5 am or later, so if all goes well I won't be playing cash on the days I play this tourney.

Thanks for reading!
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:17 PM   #55
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

I arrived at the Rio a bit after 2 to play the 2pm deep stack tourney. Registration is kept open until after 4 levels (2 hours) so it wasn't a big deal to be a little late. However, there was a line probably 100 people long waiting to register for just that tournament. After about 40 minutes in line I was finally able to register.

Got my seat just before the second level was ending. For the next hour not much happened and I went into the first break with just over starting stack of 15k. A bit after the break I got moved to a different table and within a few hands got KK all in pre-flop against AQ. No ace came and I doubled up.

The payouts were announced around this time also since they needed to wait for all late registers to get in. 1st would be just over 52k, 2nd 32k, 3rd 20k, 4th 14k, 5th 10k, and going down quickly from there. My goal was top 5 so I could play the main event.

I was moving right along, stealing blinds and antes with my tight image and chipping up without seeing many flops. Eventually though, the stacks became so short that it was pretty much a pre-flop all in affair. People were getting desperate and so I was getting called on my blind steals more often. The cards were on my side as I won a few flips and even one hand where I was behind.

The money bubble busted around 10:30. With 144 left everyone was getting paid, although the cashes were pretty small until the final 20 or so places. With about 80 players left I shoved my 6 big blind stack all-in preflop with A2 and got called by KK. It was not to be and I was knocked out in 76th place, cashing for 621. Though I would have liked to go farther, I am happy with how I played the tournament and will definitely be playing it more often.

Today the plan is to play the 2pm again and if I bust early enough to get a cash game session in, head over to the Venetian for the PLO hi/lo games that have been going the past few days, though hopefully that won't happen.

Thanks for reading!
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:57 PM   #56
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Pretty frustrated right now. Ran a little late so I knew I wouldn't make it in time for the tourney and I didn't want to register past the second level since the blinds would be higher. I decided to go to the Venetian for the hi/lo game. The place was packed and there was a 1/2 PLO and a 1/2 PLO hi/lo going, both with lists of over 10. I got my name on expecting a game to be called soon. They called the 1/2 PLO but only like 3 showed up. Then they called the 1/2 hi/lo instead, same thing happened. Then I was 1st on the list for both games for about 45 minutes and no one left either game except I think one person left the PLO game but someone behind me on the list snuck in without permission from the floor staff. I got frustrated and left to go play at the Rio.

Got there and was something like 15th on the list for PLO. Every list for every game was like this and they couldn't open any more tables because of lack of dealers so I would have to wait it out. After about half an hour and no progress I decided to just go home and take today off and play tomorrow even though I was gonna take tomorrow off. It's probably a blessing in disguise because for some reason I was just frustrated and impatient and in no mood to play.

It brings up an important point that I haven't talked about yet. Being focused, calm, and just generally ready to play is extremely important in professional poker. It might be more important than the actual knowledge of playing cards. With poker I can't just show up and get paid no matter what. If I am not playing my A game my earnings will suffer. So even though I'm a bit frustrated today, I feel good knowing that I was able to sense that I wasn't in the right state to play, and then actually act on it and go home. If I can do that consistently, I feel like it will save me a lot of money compared to if I just played anyway.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:34 PM   #57
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Pretty frustrated right now. Ran a little late so I knew I wouldn't make it in time for the tourney and I didn't want to register past the second level since the blinds would be higher. I decided to go to the Venetian for the hi/lo game. The place was packed and there was a 1/2 PLO and a 1/2 PLO hi/lo going, both with lists of over 10. I got my name on expecting a game to be called soon. They called the 1/2 PLO but only like 3 showed up. Then they called the 1/2 hi/lo instead, same thing happened. Then I was 1st on the list for both games for about 45 minutes and no one left either game except I think one person left the PLO game but someone behind me on the list snuck in without permission from the floor staff. I got frustrated and left to go play at the Rio.

Got there and was something like 15th on the list for PLO. Every list for every game was like this and they couldn't open any more tables because of lack of dealers so I would have to wait it out. After about half an hour and no progress I decided to just go home and take today off and play tomorrow even though I was gonna take tomorrow off. It's probably a blessing in disguise because for some reason I was just frustrated and impatient and in no mood to play.

It brings up an important point that I haven't talked about yet. Being focused, calm, and just generally ready to play is extremely important in professional poker. It might be more important than the actual knowledge of playing cards. With poker I can't just show up and get paid no matter what. If I am not playing my A game my earnings will suffer. So even though I'm a bit frustrated today, I feel good knowing that I was able to sense that I wasn't in the right state to play, and then actually act on it and go home. If I can do that consistently, I feel like it will save me a lot of money compared to if I just played anyway.
i actually like it when there's a wait list when i get to the room. if i can't wait the 5-10 minutes to get a seat, what's going to happen when i sit down and get 72o for 20 minutes? if you're not patient enough to wait out the list, go home. the room will be there tomorrow. the game will be there every day for the rest of our lives.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:02 PM   #58
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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if you're not patient enough to wait out the list, go home. the room will be there tomorrow. the game will be there every day for the rest of our lives.
My thoughts exactly.

Short update today. Went and played the 2pm deepstack again. I got short stacked really early mostly because of one hand where I paid off a bet on the river when a guy who was drawing to a straight ended up making top pair on the river. Shortly after the first break I shoved my last 6k in chips in after a raise to 1100 and 3 calls with KT. I really expected everyone to fold, which would have nearly doubled me up, but got called by A3 and an ace flopped and I was out.

I don't hate how I played the tournament but it definitely wasn't my best poker so I decided to pack it up and go home. Tomorrow is my off day and then I'm gonna hit it hard next week. Not sure why but my head just hasn't been in the game the last couple days. Hopefully a true day off will help me re-focus.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:46 AM   #59
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Keep going. Was going to ask whether you were up or down but then I realised you probably wouldn't answer.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:05 AM   #60
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Did a little bit of everything today. First went to the Rio for the 2pm deep stack tourney again. After getting short stacked early I doubled up with KK all in pre-flop against KQ to get back to starting chips. About 2 hands later I get dealt AA in the big blind. This asian dude who had been playing really loose and aggressive made it 1100. Blinds were at 150-300. Another pretty loose/aggressive Asian guy called behind him. I made it 3400 from the blind and both guys called. The flop came down 776 and I shoved all in for about 9k and the first guy calls and second folds. He flips over 73 and the board ran blank for me and I was out. I'm still laughing at how he calls my 3 bet with 73 but nothing I can do.

Headed to the Venetian after and got on the PLO list but it was long-ish so I also got on the 2/5 NLHE list. I got a seat at 2/5 after a few minutes. Played that for an uneventful 1.5 hours until I got called for the PLO. Then I played the PLO for 1.5 hours and won a grand total of 0 pots. The game was pretty good but I just wasn't getting hands. Next they called a 1/2 PLO hi/lo game and so I decided to switch to that. I think in hindsight I should not have switched since the hi/lo game was pretty tight and there wasn't a lot of money being passed around. I played that for about 2 1/2 hours for a small profit and ended my day.

Total I played 7 hours today in 4 different forms of poker. Definitely not a typical day. Thanks for reading!
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:29 AM   #61
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

So, I'm curious why you are complaining about people calling your raises when you price your raises so small. I'm not sure if you understand the spots where you need to just scoop what is out there or are fielding additional callers. Your strategy is kinda stuck in a weird spot, and your actions and viewpoint are quite contradictory.

Your betting makes no sense at all because you are sitting on a 12k stack with the original raiser already putting a bet roughly equal to 10% of your stack in. Your decision not to push in for your three bet is the big mistake here. If he calls off for 12k with 3-7 preflop, that's fine and a terrible beat, but when he calls off with trips 7s against you after you got married to your hand and open shoved the flop, you made the mistake.

I am enjoying the trip report, but your poker fundamentals really need a bit of addressing if you really expect to be more of a winning player. You keep knocking other people's play, but you are giving them some of the opportunities to put those beats on you because of the way you play.

Last edited by djdiggydiggy; 06-20-2012 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #62
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by djdiggydiggy View Post
So, I'm curious why you are complaining about people calling your raises when you price your raises so small. I'm not sure if you understand the spots where you need to just scoop what is out there or are fielding additional callers. Your strategy is kinda stuck in a weird spot, and your actions and viewpoint are quite contradictory.

Your betting makes no sense at all because you are sitting on a 12k stack with the original raiser already putting a bet roughly equal to 10% of your stack in. Your decision not to push in for your three bet is the big mistake here. If he calls off for 12k with 3-7 preflop, that's fine and a terrible beat, but when he calls off with trips 7s against you after you got married to your hand and open shoved the flop, you made the mistake.

I am enjoying the trip report, but your poker fundamentals really need a bit of addressing if you really expect to be more of a winning player. You keep knocking other people's play, but you are giving them some of the opportunities to put those beats on you because of the way you play.
Ummmm.. what? Is this a level?
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #63
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hi,
I just got back from a 2 weeks trip to Vegas. I played a fair bit of PLO at Venetian (mostly) and Aria last week and the week before, so we might have played together.

I'm the Chinese dude who buys in short for 200 into both games. The Venetian game is really good for shortstacking due to the structure and how ppl plays. Aria games you can play looser and has more post flop plays. PLO games are all good but ofc you still need to know how to play well.

anyway good luck and have fun.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #64
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by djdiggydiggy View Post
So, I'm curious why you are complaining about people calling your raises when you price your raises so small. I'm not sure if you understand the spots where you need to just scoop what is out there or are fielding additional callers. Your strategy is kinda stuck in a weird spot, and your actions and viewpoint are quite contradictory.

Your betting makes no sense at all because you are sitting on a 12k stack with the original raiser already putting a bet roughly equal to 10% of your stack in. Your decision not to push in for your three bet is the big mistake here. If he calls off for 12k with 3-7 preflop, that's fine and a terrible beat, but when he calls off with trips 7s against you after you got married to your hand and open shoved the flop, you made the mistake.

I am enjoying the trip report, but your poker fundamentals really need a bit of addressing if you really expect to be more of a winning player. You keep knocking other people's play, but you are giving them some of the opportunities to put those beats on you because of the way you play.
If I shove I'm just not going to get called that often. However if I make it smaller and shove flop I give him a chance to flop a top pair type hand or see a safe flop with his mid-pair and go broke. Saying I made a mistake because he flopped trips is ridiculous. Blinds were 150-300 (with 50 ante) and villain made it 1100. There was one caller and I made it 3400. So at this point there is 3400+1100+1100+150+500=6250 in the pot and its 2300 for him to call. So ignoring the possibility of the other player re raising, he is getting 2.7:1 on a call. Even if he gets my whole stack 100% of the time he outflops me, he's getting an additional 9000:2300 or about 4:1 for a total of 6.7:1 with implied odds.

Now since your fundamentals are so good I'm sure I don't have to remind you that even a smaller pocket pair isn't getting the correct odds to try to flop a set, so there is no way that 73, even suited, is getting the right odds to flop two pair/trips/flush/straight.

Lastly, when did I complain that he called my raise? I said I was laughing at how he could call with 73. I want that call all day.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #65
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Hi,
I just got back from a 2 weeks trip to Vegas. I played a fair bit of PLO at Venetian (mostly) and Aria last week and the week before, so we might have played together.

I'm the Chinese dude who buys in short for 200 into both games. The Venetian game is really good for shortstacking due to the structure and how ppl plays. Aria games you can play looser and has more post flop plays. PLO games are all good but ofc you still need to know how to play well.

anyway good luck and have fun.
Thanks man, yea I'm sure I saw you at some point. I'm still trying to figure out whether I like the Venetian or Aria game better. Venetian game seems to play a lot looser but I run bad there haha. Although I have done well at the Rio game and its basically the same structure as the Venetian just smaller since there is no bring in, the straddle is 5 and max buy in is 500 instead of 1k. The V structure is definitely better for short stacking.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #66
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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If I shove I'm just not going to get called that often. However if I make it smaller and shove flop I give him a chance to flop a top pair type hand or see a safe flop with his mid-pair and go broke. Saying I made a mistake because he flopped trips is ridiculous. Blinds were 150-300 (with 50 ante) and villain made it 1100. There was one caller and I made it 3400. So at this point there is 3400+1100+1100+150+500=6250 in the pot and its 2300 for him to call. So ignoring the possibility of the other player re raising, he is getting 2.7:1 on a call. Even if he gets my whole stack 100% of the time he outflops me, he's getting an additional 9000:2300 or about 4:1 for a total of 6.7:1 with implied odds.

Now since your fundamentals are so good I'm sure I don't have to remind you that even a smaller pocket pair isn't getting the correct odds to try to flop a set, so there is no way that 73, even suited, is getting the right odds to flop two pair/trips/flush/straight.

Lastly, when did I complain that he called my raise? I said I was laughing at how he could call with 73. I want that call all day.
LOL Aces never win LDO!

DJDiggy please come back and show us some killer fun-duh-mentals
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:36 PM   #67
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
If I shove I'm just not going to get called that often. However if I make it smaller and shove flop I give him a chance to flop a top pair type hand or see a safe flop with his mid-pair and go broke. Saying I made a mistake because he flopped trips is ridiculous. Blinds were 150-300 (with 50 ante) and villain made it 1100. There was one caller and I made it 3400. So at this point there is 3400+1100+1100+150+500=6250 in the pot and its 2300 for him to call. So ignoring the possibility of the other player re raising, he is getting 2.7:1 on a call. Even if he gets my whole stack 100% of the time he outflops me, he's getting an additional 9000:2300 or about 4:1 for a total of 6.7:1 with implied odds.

Now since your fundamentals are so good I'm sure I don't have to remind you that even a smaller pocket pair isn't getting the correct odds to try to flop a set, so there is no way that 73, even suited, is getting the right odds to flop two pair/trips/flush/straight.

Lastly, when did I complain that he called my raise? I said I was laughing at how he could call with 73. I want that call all day.
honestly im shocked you even responded seriously to such a low level thinker lol YOU SHOULD HAVE SHOVED BRO TAKE THAT POT DEEEEOOOWWNN PRE WIT UR AA!
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:44 AM   #68
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I think there is a difference in how the hand should be played in cash vs tourney.

In cash you don't need to jam pre-flop, especially if villain has a smaller stack. If the guy gets a lucky flop and win the hand, so be it, you will have many more chances to make it back.

However, with tournaments, one bad flop could knock you out. It's much better to jam all-in per-flop and just take the pot down. Because the danger of having an overpair is that it's hard to know when you are behind and one wrong read could lead to bust.

Cheers and good luck the rest of the summer.

S
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:40 AM   #69
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Hey guys so headed over to the Aria today for some PLO. I called ahead this time to get on the list so once I got there it wasn't long and I had a seat. I got stuck early after getting it all-in with a flush against 2 pair, aces and kings. A king hit the river to give him a full house.

I built my stack up from there, never quite getting above even. About 5 hours in to my session I had two hands where I bet the flop with big straight draws and a short stack went all-in. Both times I had "sucker wraps" but was getting 3-1 and 4-1 respectively on the all-ins so I had to call, though I am still thinking about whether it was right to bet in the first place. I am going to post those hands in the PLO forum for those interested. Turns out I was roughly 43% to win each but I missed both times. The last pot of my night I was all-in preflop with 789T against AA34 (again I'm a slight underdog here at about 45%) and lost. So not a good night results wise but I think I actually played one of my better sessions.

A wrap is a straight draw that has more than 8 outs. An example would be if the flop came 89x and I have TJQx. I don't have a straight yet, but any 7,T,J, or Q gives me a straight. There are 4 7's and 3 of each of my other outs for a total of 13 outs. A "sucker wrap" is a straight draw like this but one which is on the bottom of the board. With our 89x flop, a sucker wrap is 567x. This hand has the same number of outs, but they are not as good of quality because they make straights that can be beaten by a higher straight, while the TJQx does not.

When I say I am getting 3-1 and 4-1, that means that the pot has 3 times the amount of money in it that I have to call. For example, if the pot is 300 and I need to call 100, I am getting 3-1. Since the bets were all-in, my equity in the pot needs to be at least 25% to call. For the pot where I am getting 4-1, I need 20%. So although I was less than 50% to win, the call is still profitable.


Thanks for reading!
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #70
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

lol...you guys are too easy... though I now expect a bit of a ban...

GL at the tables
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:23 PM   #71
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Horrible session today. Only lasted an hour and 45 minutes. Didn't even make it to a PLO game. I was playing 2/5 NLHE while waiting for the PLO game. The first buy in lost was good play, second was horrible. I'm not going to say much else about specifics but suffice it to say that I'm pretty upset with myself right now for how I played my second buy-in. The last couple weeks have been pretty bad. It started out as just running bad but today I actually started to play bad because of it.

Taking the night off obviously and hopefully can hit it tomorrow with a clear head. I really don't like taking what basically is an extra day off since I need to get hours in, but playing bad hours is worse so I guess I need to take the lesser of two evils. Thanks for reading.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:00 AM   #72
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Did a little bit of everything today. First went to the Rio for the 2pm deep stack tourney again. After getting short stacked early I doubled up with KK all in pre-flop against KQ to get back to starting chips. About 2 hands later I get dealt AA in the big blind. This asian dude who had been playing really loose and aggressive made it 1100. Blinds were at 150-300. Another pretty loose/aggressive Asian guy called behind him. I made it 3400 from the blind and both guys called. The flop came down 776 and I shoved all in for about 9k and the first guy calls and second folds. He flips over 73 and the board ran blank for me and I was out. I'm still laughing at how he calls my 3 bet with 73 but nothing I can do.
4bet more pre.. and I don't see why you would open shove on that board, what range did u put him on?
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #73
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by TMack View Post
4bet more pre.. and I don't see why you would open shove on that board, what range did u put him on?
Ax, any pocket pair. I'm guessing not 73. There shouldn't be many 7s in his range.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #74
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb View Post
Ax, any pocket pair. I'm guessing not 73. There shouldn't be many 7s in his range.
Doesn't matter anyways. He's never getting called by worse.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:51 PM   #75
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Re: cushlash in Vegas; TLDR

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Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
Doesn't matter anyways. He's never getting called by worse.
Never? You think people are folding 88-QQ for a pot-sized shove on that flop? Come on. Think before you post.

He made it 3400 and was called in two spots. Round it off to 10K in the pot and he shoves 9K? Never the wrong play.
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