Cushlash:

I also have a finance degree....

I will join the crowd that advises AGAINST working somewhere for free. I've seen SO many "interns" and fresh out of school people do this and it very often results in nothing. There are MANY places out there that I think take advantage of this because there are so many young people desperately looking for work.

Another problem is that IF you do not get placed into a job while in school OR very shortly after, it is difficult to get back into the field. One thing that I know works is to write article for "Seeking Alpha" or "Value Investors Club" or other finance web sites. I've had a few interviews for fund positions because of this. I also know a few people who DID get a job as a result of their writing/analysis.

Even if you DO NOT get a job through your articles, you will meet people and build a network of contacts that you would not otherwise get.

Once you've got a track record of articles/analysis, that gives you some amount of credibility. That is going to open doors.

The other thing I would recommend is starting/running your own business. Odds are you will get much more satisfaction from doing this than working a a "regular" job.

Even if it does not become your main source of income, you never know what might happen 1,2,4 years down the road. A side business that gets you $400, $700, $1,000 a month now, might grow into several times that in a few years.

Good luck to you!

I agree, I would be very very careful with any free arrangement and only do it under the right circumstances for a limited amount of time.

I think this is a good idea. I've been right on the verge of finally starting my own site to host my blog and podcast and use it to get more stuff out there. I have no actual reason for not having started this already besides what I can only describe as fear disguised as laziness. I could submit things I write to relevant outlets and try to open some doors that way as you recommend.

Yea this dovetails with starting up a website. I think that while it seems to be the harder path, starting my own thing might actually be the way to go. Instead of trying to convince employers that I'm not a broke deadbeat gambler and to give me a shot I should invest in myself and make a real effort to start something up. There's obviously a lot more to it than that, and again the reasons I haven't done this are complicated and not something I can fully grasp yet, let alone accurately articulate here.

Thanks! I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time to post here.

New episode here. More thoughts on game selection, a fun blackjack situation and more musings on poker overall.

Excellent podcast. I particularly enjoyed the discussion on your current outlook on poker and the direction that you are considering. Looking forward to the next one.

I've listen to a few of your pods and see you are burned out and looking for a different career. IDK what your winrate is but would you have the same feelings if your winrate was higher? If you're just tried of the grind maybe your not engaged enough and think to many spots are just standard.

Thanks! Glad you still enjoy them despite me trying to phase out poker as I'd like to continue regardless of my life situation.

I doubt it has anything to do with winrate. I agree that I'm not engaged enough. I have come to pretty much the exact conclusion you have a few times before and resolved to hunker down and work on my game/get focused/etc. It works for a little while, but live poker is extremely slow. So inevitably I end up sitting there bored and lose focus. Then distraction becomes the norm and I play sub-par because I'm not paying attention. This is going to come off as super elitist/arrogant/condescending/conceited, but I promise I don't mean it that way: Live poker (or at least nlhe) is just not challenging/stimulating enough to keep my attention. Its not that interesting most of the time, often for very long stretches. I get bored and want to leave. I am absolutely not saying that I have mastered it or am the best or am "too smart" for it. Far from it. There's probably an argument that its a leak of mine for not developing my mental game enough to push through these stretches. Regardless of that, for me personally the learning curve has leveled off to a point that its no longer interesting enough for me to stay engaged. I've tried fixing the problem by trying to refine my game even further and pay attention to smaller and smaller edges to keep things interesting. It just doesn't keep me engaged that long. I'm open to the possibility that this may simply be a personal defect that I'll have to work on. After all, most things are boring once you get to a certain point. However, for now I believe that its more likely that I need a new challenge than that I need to re-engage with poker.

I chuckle whenever someone says just study and more money then you'll be happy. Live winrates are capped at max 10bb/hr. You'd have to be doing literally everything right, all the damn time, every single hand in order to truly have that winrate.

Breaking it down:

Sound fundamentals (ranges, pot odds, value betting, bet folding etc): 3bb/hr

Bluff catching and bluffing (advanced hand reading/ range calculation, knowing stack sizes to bluff with, game flow, dynamic, blockers, bluff catch ranges etc etc): 2bb/hr

Live tells/ angles/ paying very close attention every single hand: 2bb/hr

Game selection: 3bb/hr

As cushlash said, the amount of "dead" time in live poker is just insane. Most of the time its just fundamental play, but you have to fight the boredom and pay extremely close attention for the rare spots like bluffing/bluff catching/ live tells etc that bump up your win rate. Those things don't happen every session or maybe not even every other session. It's hard to stay focused, to keep fishing when nothing is biting on the end of your line.

Don't believe me? How many pros do you know that have played for years and still pay attention to every single hand? I don't know of any. They all zone out and just bumhunt and play fundamentals for the most part and yet they are crushing for like 12bb/hr or whatever in the short term. It's variance plain and simple.

Live win rates are never truly accurate. There is always collusion, angle shoots, dealers exposing cards etc that can never truly be accounted for. I've seen some crazy **** at higher stake games you guys wouldn't believe.

Getting into the right games is definitely the most if not top 3 factor contributing to winning a lot of money on a consistent basis.

Yea the boredom issue is the crux of it for me. I like to think that my brain needs a more stimulating challenge but maybe I'm just a dumb millennial with too short of an attention span.

Agree on both counts. Game selection is huge in live poker and right now I just don't see anything all that special happening on a regular enough basis.

New episode is up, bit shorter than usual. Link.

Another new episode, bit more substantial than the last one:

Paying More Attention and Pro-on-Pro Collusion

yo dude i hope youre doing alright. i dont know if you are looking for feedback on your last podcast but whatever i'll let it rip.

needling/complaining-

i'm one of those guys that does this all the time lol. I'm not making fun of people for being smart... i'm poking fun at them / letting everyone oblivious to the fact that they're a pro because they're bad for the game and because they sit there and feel all entitled, important, and stuffy lol which i find really funny.

they don't talk. they don't drink. they don't laugh or smile. they don't contribute to anything. they give off a hostile vibe. that's totally cool and that's their right... but it's also my right to sit there and give a little needle, give some hints to the fish to watch out for xyz. I can count on one hand the pros i've played with that were friendly and good for the game despite being winners.

i mean if they're going to sit there, be anti social, be miserable, tank all the damn ****ing time and talk strat and try their hardest to take my money then well im definitely going to needle the f out of them.

pro on pro collusion-

think its a mad conspiracy that these live stakes pros are intentionally colluding/ making backroom deals or agreements etc. that said i think the probability of it goes waaaaaay up when they are part of the same stable/ backed etc. what happens lots of dudes get lonely, and they only hang out with other pros, which means they get more information than some random player, which then makes them make really good folds / save a ton of money etc, which gives the illusion that those pros had a plan from the very beginning to divide and conquer

whether it was intentional or not, the end result is the same: they have a massive, and i mean massive edge when they play on the same table with one another. if it's a mediocre game and they sit- it turns into an unplayable game.

if its an above average and 3 of them sit it almost becomes unplayable.

Definitely always looking for feedback on the podcast so I appreciate your reply.

I can see some merit in needling the guys that are particularly bad for the game, like the ones that talk strategy at the table, berate fish, tank endlessly and overall act like its the final table of some televised donkament. I do none of these things though.

I'm friendly at the table and joke around my fair share, though I do have days when I just want to be left alone and am quiet. I still try to be friendly and don't think I give off a hostile or entitled vibe. In this case the guy was just giving me **** for being tight, and considering his vpip is probably 90%+, anyone who's a winner looks tight to him. The weird part is that he has been crushing me as of late so I don't get the hate.

Again, I'm not upset about it, it was just something I noticed and found interesting enough to mention.

Totally agree with your assessment of pro on pro collusion.

in that case i would jokoe a little back. i'm not an extrovert or a comedian, all I do is stay open to conversation, have open body language, have a beer or two, share my cards with neighbors etc. I play tight and nobody gives a damn. Fish have even reverse bum hunted me just because they like my company.

really weird but a buddy from my hometown texted me the other day, telling me that "M" was wondering where I was. Who the **** is M?! lol apparently it was some fish I played poker with a few times 1.5 years ago and he still remembers playing with me.

just curious do you have a dealers license ? in my state pennsylvania you need one to go auctions , have dealer plates etc. and there not the easiest thing to get if i remember correctly from a few years ago. btw totally agree about your take on real estate , i laugh when people say ill just flip houses like there buying an ounce of fishscale coke and selling it. I was in real estate for a few years myself , yes tons of work , dealing with the pros and joes of contractors . +1 on that

This nonsense reared its ugly head again, which half explains why I've been MIA the last few weeks. Came down with it right at the beginning of the month and was out of commission for about 10 days. A bit of frustration with insurance/doctors didn't help the situation but we're back now so its all good.

I've been back playing for a week or so and I tried to record a podcast episode and for some reason just really hated the result so I didn't release it. I have a prop bet in the works with a friend that will more than likely result in me being a lot more active from both a writing and podcast standpoint. He suggested it and while his side of it is slightly different, I thought it'd be a great way to motivate me to get some **** done that I keep saying I want to do but never get around to.

On the job front, last week I met with a contact I had made through my alumni association about getting involved in some projects with his CPA business. I wouldn't be a full time employee but would be paid on a project by project basis as clients come in with work. I'm pretty excited about this. It should be great experience, gives me a chance to make some money outside of poker, and being basically an independent contractor/freelancer allows me to keep a lot of the freedom and flexibility that I want.

I have my annual trip planned for Wisconsin over the summer and just booked 5 days in September for a football game. I also have a few other, mostly local excursions in the works. My main concern about taking a full-time gig is losing a lot of the flexibility that allows me to do those things. I think having some non-poker project work is a great way for me to diversify my income streams and branch out a bit without losing too much flexibility. While it'd be nice to have the benefits of full-time employment like health care,401k, and vacation/sick pay, I'm willing to trade that stuff for the freedom and flexibility as long as I'm branching out and bringing in money doing things besides poker.

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out once some projects come in but I'm glad to be moving in what I feel is a good direction.

First product of my aforementioned prop bet. No idea how future manifestations will look, may be more of this, might be totally different but this was the first. Something I've been thinking about a lot recently with my experience in looking for an exit from poker.

F*ck You Money

Ever since I first came about the idea of “f*ck you money” from Nassim Taleb’s writings, I have been very enamored with the idea. The notion of having enough money to say “f*ck you” to the standard narrative of having a job and playing nice with people you don’t like is extremely appealing to me. Unlike what many people think when I say I don’t want a job, it’s not that I want to do nothing and just sit on my couch eating Cheetos all day, I simply want to be able to pursue whatever I want without worrying about whether it will produce income. Unfortunately for most people, myself included, acquiring that level of wealth will require doing some things that are not desirable but for their ability to generate income. While I am far from my “f*ck you money” goal, I believe that as a professional poker player I have cultivated a sort of “f*ck you skill”. It won’t get me rich, but it gives me a safety net in case my means of producing income becomes too mind numbing and soul crushing before I reach my goal. It allows me to stay afloat while I look for a less undesirable way of making money. Most importantly, it keeps me free from being at the mercy of an employer. It’s not “f*ck you money”, but it seems like the next best thing.

With poker I’m still on the hook to produce income. It’s not passive and I’m essentially an hourly employee. There is no paid time off, sick days, 401k plan or health care. However, there is also no schedule, no boss, and no company policy to adhere to. I am self-employed and completely free to do things how and when I want. I can go on vacation when I want without needing to get approval from anyone. I can work overtime if it is necessary. I can leave early or stay late for any reason. There are no meetings. I can say pretty much whatever I want without fear of being fired due to not having represented the company according to their guidelines.

While poker has definitely contracted a ton, it is still very much possible to make a decent living wage. I don’t see this possibility going away any time soon. I’m not saying that I’m going to be rich one day because of poker. I almost certainly will not. It does however give me a way to make a basic living without a job. In the future if I’m at a job that becomes soul-crushing and I dread going every day, I can say “f*ck you” and use poker while I transition to something else. I won’t have to suck it up in a bad situation while finding other means of employment like I see a lot of people forced to do for financial reasons. No employers will be able to force me into insulting levels of compensation or work conditions because they know I am trapped. I’ll never be at the mercy of an employer. No, I don’t have enough money to last the rest of my life, but I have what I believe is the next best thing. I have a “f*ck you” skill that can provide a basic living with complete freedom if I ever need it.

What kind of projects does the CPA have in mind?

I more or less have had exactly the same thoughts in the past. Especially with the bolded. Grinding live to survive can always be done- but it comes at a great cost: not being able to pursue hobbies, interests, and ventures that come along. It's a difference between coasting in life and building a life you can call your own and being truly satisfied.

During my brief poker years, I remember casually thinking about projects, hobbies and thinking "yeah that would be cool i guess", but always blowing it off. And then one day it hit me like a bag of bricks- damn I actually have quite a lot of serious hobbies, projects, and a couple business ideas that I would love to do.... but there was no cash whatsoever to sink into them. And there was no cash game grinder I knew, online or live that had actually transitioned from low-mid stakes to owning properties/ starting successful small businesses. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but i'm on the right path.

I actually think having your hand in a number of little side things is much better than putting all your eggs in one basket- as you mentioned- being trapped isn't a good spot. There's no reason why you should stop playing poker if and when you find good employment. If you're really smart about it- you don't need to hit home runs or rely on one source of income. Having various sources is the best.

He deals with mostly internal audits and compliance related stuff.

I can definitely relate to this. Every so often I have thoughts of doing certain things but often decide I don't want to spend the money on that thing. Its not that I don't have it necessarily, just that I'm always reluctant to spend large chunks on non-essential things when my income is uncertain.

If I was crushing volume it'd be a different story. If I was happy to play 2000, or even 1500 hours a year then it could be different but at this point I've attempted to up my volume so many times that I'm pretty confident I'm just not cut out to do that. If I absolutely had to I probably could but whenever I maintain that level of volume for any length of time I start to get pretty unhappy.

I havent enjoyed teh pokerz for a real long time. BUT when I was trying to save my house and my kid was getting ready to go to college I found it in me to crank it out. I am pretty sure if life got in the way and you HAD to come up with an extra 100k in 52 weeks you would be in there grinding out making the best of it.

Totally. I'm confident that if I absolutely had to I could do it, its just not something I would be happy doing year in and year out. I have mad respect for you for having done that, for real.

Good to hear from you my friend, hope all is well!

Good for you!! There are times when we have to do what we have to do, whether we like it or not. I think that the discipline to do something like what you did is quite similar to the discipline that it takes to be good at anything, including poker.

But wouldn't you agree that you're pretty much at your poker peak in terms of knowledge, skill, experience etc? It's sort of devastating to have spent years getting good at a game in order to arguably make top dollar only to say nevermind and put in small volume.

The window to capitalize on your specific set of skills you've developed is rapidly shrinking. I know people are going to laugh at this- but from a professional pov- the nl market is collapsing/ isn't far from caving in on itself. Like you're never going to make more money at this than what you can today. For example, the cap 5 years from now might be 75k, and 10 years 50k, and even worse factoring in cost of living increases and inflation. I guess what i'm saying is these opportunities don't present themselves very often in life- meaning being the right person, at the right time and place to squeeze everything for what it is. Just speaking from experience- i really wish I had played 100 hour weeks during the online boom for as long as I possibly could have instead of dicking around and thinking the opportunity would last forever.

Like yeah you would definitely hate your life for a year or two because you're working nonstop... but a the long term view those 2 years or whatever can set up for a really comfortable life.