Wow, 4 hours would tilt me to no end...

I generally don't ask them to count it out- they offer at the Wynn or my local casino. I've never had an instance where it's wrong and I know they count multiple times. They're obligated to make it right otherwise their books are wrong- too much money has the potential to kill a gambling license and they should be just as motivated to make sure there's not too much (unaccounted for) as too little. I suppose unscrupulous employees could skim 100 or so without me noticing, but there's always two of them and again I've never had a problem.

I probably should make them count it out just to be extra-careful; way more difficult to get it fixed on the back end in case it's wrong.

Leon, you describe TDB as high variance compared to JoB, but also say that royals occur more frequently in TDB. Since hitting a royal is incorporated into the EV that's shown on wizardofodds, etc. I wonder that in the short term where it's going to be hard to hit a royal in JoB, that if TDB might actually be lower variance wrt the published EV?

Did I say that? I don't remember that- maybe I said something to that effect since 4 aces w/kicker pays like a royal, so effectively you DO get a royal payout more often than JOB.

The variance in TDB is so much more than JOB b/c the frequent, small hits (two pair, three of a kind) are reduced- that matters A LOT. True, the overall EV is made up for by the increased top-end prizes, but those are rare. So TDB is a game with frequent small losses, coupled with the occasional monster hit- that is the definition of a high-variance game.

No, you're right.

The more I think about it, since a royal only happens once in a bazillion in JoB, the EV with or without royals is probably close to the same in the short run.

Leon, could I ask a favour? Would you mind posting the link to your craps trip report that you mentioned before? The mobile search function isn't great on 2+2 and I haven't had my personal computer for a while (long story). As a low stakes craps junkie, I'd love to read it.

The link is below, but the TR may not be worth much b/c I deleted the pics on imgur without knowing it would affect them here. I was proactively trying to "make room" on my imgur account- didn't need to do it, but now it's too late.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...-help-1432918/

Super. Thanks for providing it. I'm halfway through.

Nice little hit at MGM Grand Detroit.
$20 investment, playing max bet and hit this beauty within my first 5 minutes.


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8/5 TDB? Yuck.

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Chiming in since Leon made me lose 250 in video poker this past weekend in vegas! =(

This will def be my go to game for grinding drinks in the future

Btw, they have some pretty solid beer at the palms. I was drinking Stone IPA/Joe IPA the whole time.