. They should pretty much ban the Bellagio regs from the game or have only 2-3 of them in there. I rather see more amateur lawyers, doctors, and businessmen gambling it up!

Then watch Live at the Bike!

Few things that I've noticed, both being very familiar with Twitch and live stream cash games.

1. RFID readers. The commentators claim that their equipment is working fine and they have the RFID readers marked on the table for where the players to place their cards, but this has been a pretty big issue, it's more often than not that at least one player's hand doesn't show up. LATB has this from time to time and it can be a fun sweat, but when it's such a regular occurrence it becomes a problem. So whether it's instructing the players better on how to get their cards to show up or whatever, something should be addressed there.

2. Commentators. They had mentioned they had some players who wanted to come on and commentate, this would be fantastic. The commentary is honestly IMO very poor. Neither of them holds even a slightly advanced strategy mind, and more often than not they're not even chatting about the hand, multiple times it was "oh right what's going on here", "oh let's talk about the hand." And I know they work for Bellagio so obviously, you're going to plug your room, but when someone asks "what's the rake like?" And you laugh saying it's the lowest rake in the country...come on bro, really. With the commentators, LATB brings they have real strategy talk from real pros who play the games and that provides such a bigger entertainment value.

3. Stack sizes, the onscreen graphics are overall very good, exactly what LATB uses. However they do not update stack sizes nearly often enough, and when they do it's not always correct either I noticed once they showed stack sizes were the same 20 minutes apart after a few big pots had gone down.

4. In regards to them playing other games, I would say the odds of them "drawing" or playing any sort of surprise game is out of the question. They have a list of people that sign up, for a certain game and a certain stake. That’s what every other stream does and I don’t see them ever changing this simply to generate hopefully more action. It’s poker at Bellagio, that much right there will get people to watch, even if it’s not great, which it’s not right now. That said, they have stated they will in the future be streaming more mix games, limit poker, as well as some 1/3. LATB has contests to where you can win a buyin into a game and you keep whatever you cash out. This would be really cool to see and can add a really interesting dynamic into the game.

5. Viewership and popularity. For the first few weeks they’ve averaged about 500-600 constant viewers, which I think is pretty good. LATB is typically in the low 1k, as are other big name online streamers such as jeffgross, dougpolk, jaimestaples, on a regular day. POTS wasn’t as the top for viewership as other online pros were streaming at the same time, but they were 3rd or 4th normally which is pretty good for such a new stream. I really thought Neeme would bring in a lot more viewers, but this didn’t seem to be the case really, viewership remained pretty consistent with previous weeks.

6. Things that draw viewers and popularity. Names that people know, goes for commentary somewhat but mostly for playing. High stakes. Big pots/action. Engaging commentary and/or table talk. Just a few things from my experience.

A dealer at Caesar’s did mention to me that Planet Hollywood is planning on starting their own live stream. This would be really cool to see, and I think Caesar’s should start one. Not entirely sure why they would stream from Planet Hollywood rather than Caesar’s, but I have no other information on this other than that, so take it for what it’s worth I suppose.

did neeme confirm in his prev vlog he would be on that day? I don't recall. If not, maybe they see a spike this week from those that watched his vlog about the game?

Bellagio being bellagio does not make me want to watch a stream. Nor does it entice some random card player/ gambler/degen to watch the stream, there are tons of streams/vlogs/ shows etc out right now. What does bring in viewership is a good, unique stream, and a good poker stream has lots of action, lots of table talk, and personality. Bellagio stream has none. They (maybe you work there, i hope?) have to provide something new to the stream-- and lol rebuy cups that people never dip into isn't it.

LATB- they get to stream NL/PLO because there are a bunch of action players. I guess it's not manufactured either- the streams are scheduled and whoever wants to play just shows up and plays. There is a ton of action, lots of multiway pots, and good table talk and personality.

PNIA- They provide HIGH STAKES action, which is the main draw. There are 7 pros but the pots and stacks are huge, and even they get out of line etc. The table talk is also entertaining.

Bellagio- They provide mid stakes stream which are filled with (and you cant even deny this) tons and tons of "pros" and "grinders". The games are bad, the games are nitty, there's little action. there is no personality. it's not fun to watch. honestly it felt like a job to keep watching the stream. Neeme or not.

The player pool- nits/pros/grinders will not ever change in LV. At least not in the foreseeable future. Which means the stream is always going to be boring/ ****. Unless you make it invite only- but then you delve into false advertising. Like you're trying so damn hard to save a game (NLHE) that is impossible to be saved no matter how many more blinds or antes or straddles you put in.

PL mixed games would be the nuts, it would be new/ unique to streaming, the action would be nuts and it would actually get more gamblers and recs in through the door instead of opposite which is happening right now- only nits/serious players/ grinders are interested in the Bell/ the stream.

Actually, antes are an interesting idea that could definitely drive action.

I don't see the big issue with "false advertising" to be honest. In fact, Bellagio doesn't even run the 2/5/T outside of the show so I'm not sure how inviting rec players to that game would be false advertising. I can only imagine the complaints some of you had about High Stakes Poker not being an accurate representation of the games at the Golden Nugget lol. And Poker Night in America has crazy action at casinos that regularly just spread 1/2 lol

BTW, PNIA lineups tend to be super soft. Rarely will you see 7 pros on there. Maybe 7 "names" but most of those players are fun players or pros just there to have fun because 25/50 is such a small drop in the bucket for them.

Neeme had mentioned the game before in his VLOGs, although did not say in the very latest one before the game that he would be playing that week. He did tweet it out early in the day that he would be playing with him and the Bellagio poker room account replied so there was a decent amount of social media talk about it.

Maybe simply the name of Bellagio doesn't bring viewers, but the name and it's live poker in Las Vegas rec viewers tune in. The brand and location and what it is gets people interested, even when the content isn't great. I'm just referring to this from a bigger picture standpoint and what the stream would need to do to be successful. I think Bellagio is a big enough brand and draw being the first live stream in Vegas itself to where it doesn't really have to worry too much about being "unique" in the content they show. After all, the live stream poker market obviously has some big streams with LATB, poker night in America, Stones is a decently known one, but it's far from saturated to where Bellagio needs to do something all that different IMO.

r u serious? dude PNIA doesn't have a stream with stakes that are very eerily similar to every home casino stakes. if i was a stupid fish that watched the stream- thought there was tons of action at a stake basically the same at my casino- and the commentators are talking the hell out of how much action the B has- and I end up booking an entire week at the B (because why the hell would i stay at a different casino if the B has the best games)- and i find out the games are actually super nit/ grinder filled/ NOTHING like the stream- yeah im going to feel pissed and misled, AND the next time I come to LV im giving my money to a different casino/hotel.

And i think you're just sort of biased and or lazy. You aren't denying that the games are nitty, and tight, and filled with grinders. you also wont deny that LV has an insane grinder/pro player base (arguable a much bigger % of the player pool than say LA, which is exactly why LA has better games). You also don't deny that PL mixed games would be better action and be more attractive to gamblers and recs for lots of reasons.

^ it's looks like you just dont want to give up on NLHE. confusing.

It costs money to produce a show. The show is being a produced for a reason- and that reason with 99% certainty is to advertise the poker room and to BRING IN FRESH BLOOD. Sorry but you can't bring in fresh blood by streaming nitty, pro filled, small pot, no action games. It doesn't work. it doesn't bring in new players- at least the players/ gamblers that the B should want (not just for the poker room but the for entire casino as well). It doesn't make any sense.

and fwiw- no i'm not a mixed game specialist. NLHE is by far and away my best game. But I know it's a dead game, and it's a very boring game in most lineups due to it being so nitty. That's why all the degens/ gamblers/ big timers play PL. PL mixed simply brings in a bigger player base which again- is good for the casino, the poker room, and the show.

If you really think watching an action packed game is going to get players to book stays at Bellagio you pretty much just made a very strong case for Bellagio POTS to invite mostly rec players to play on stream.

Or dont false adverstise/ potentially piss off a lot of fun players/ gamblers with the false advertising- and instead just spread a game that has lots of action, gamble, and a great chance for everyone- fish included to win big and frequently. NLHE doesn't fit that at all.

What if the alternative is a game with 7-8 pros?

I want to be prepared for moving up in stakes and being able to hold my own in all sorts of game conditions instead of bum-hunting.

I'd like to see a couple of guys who fancy themselves as LAGgy crushers with the rest of the seats filled with OMCs who the LAGs don't respect.

That's certainly true. A lot of people really hate the Bellagio because of the way they have treated players in the past. If I watch this thing it's in spite of being in the Bellagio, not because of it.

I don't believe I'm being biased, and never did I say the stream was great, in fact I said it's not lol. But it's about bringing viewers and getting more popular, which will then lead to them getting partnered on twitch and getting a sub button, which they could then even go further on a subscription site like LATB has. There's a lot of pros and grinders in the games for 5/10 and up. This is why I know several people who play at or above those stakes and never really considered Vegas as a great option to move to. Dream crusher said the 1/3 game they test streamed was the best and this doesn't surprise me. Yeah, it's not high stakes, but I can imagine a much better action game. So many of the problems you come up, while valid, have to do with the players they bring on and we agree the player pool isn't great, but what's going to change? I had already said Bellagio is going to introduce more mix games and limit games in the future so I was never stuck on NL lol. The Bellagio is not going to do anything drastically different than LATB has done to build their stream, even with a smaller, not as "TV" player pool the same model will work, and it has worked, a stream getting 500+ constant viewers on the very first stream and holding steady at that number shows enough initial interest already. I have several gripes about Bellagio as room including the worst behavior I've seen by a dealer, but I hope the stream improves. There's only a couple more weeks before a long summer break anyways, so looking into the future is really several months out.

Still the Bellagio brand is quite strong. Far stronger than any of the other rooms that stream. Chances are if you've traveled somewhere to play poker then you've probably played at Bellagio, or at the very least have wanted to play there. In that regard, players will tend to have a much stronger connection to Bellagio than they will to The Bicycle, as an example (outside of California at least).

This stream could go a long way in shaping viewer's perception of the room, whether negative or positive. But like you said, a lot of players already have a negative perception of the room, and for those players I suppose the stream can only improve the room's image.

Yep +1.

I'd like to see a few episodes of 1/3 and 2/5 with only tourists and no locals for a few episodes. That would be FUN.

lol you didn't even acknowledge the PL mix idea and went straight into NLHE over and over. Dude it's dead at mid stakes, fish aren't interested in getting SMOKED by guys who have studied the game for thousands of hours and have seen every single training vid under the sun. It's just not fun. The 1/3 idea could be ok... although it misses it's mark in that a lot of gambler types simply won't be bothered to play such low stakes. Yes, sure, there is more action and more multiway pots than in a 2/5/10 pro filled game- however pots are still relatively small when you compare it to their average BJ wager. It also doesn't neutralize any of the specialists edge over the whales- it doesn't matter what stake they play, whales/fish will always be a major dog against a no limit specialist- and every single pro (from meh-crazy good) is a specialist/ has a major advantage over average joes and big gamblers. That's the major rub.

You asked what's going to change? As if what you guys can do? For starters you should be looking to introduce games where average joes/ fish/ big gamblers have a fighting chance against pros. I'll say it again- the average joe is DRAWING DEAD against a no limit pro. You need to actively promote games where losing players still have the opportunity to have frequent and sometimes huge winning sessions- PL MIX. Right now all the room is doing (you're not the only room) is not thinking it through- not catering to the right type of customer you really want- and are instead promoting a game where average people are drawing dead against specialists.

I'm telling you right now- i've had the opportunity of playing PL mix and it is absolutely off the hook for everyone. Stacks go flying in a pl mix and nobody is immune to having big swings (which is good for the game). Anyone can come into a game like that- know the basic rules and have a huge winning session, and if they aren't half bad they can have consistent winning sessions- which can't be said for NLHE. Seriously- stop trying to cater to pros/ make it easier for them to stack losing players. Your main concern should be to create a fun game that losing players can win at- which is pl mix- and if the pros want to play with the fish/ pay their bills well then they gotta duke it out and figure out the game just like the average joes do.

LA is lucky because there are way more recs and loose money than there are professionals. PNIA is lucky because they play for really big stakes which automatically makes it interesting for a lot of views. LV- doesn't have any of that, and as i've said before- seeing a bunch of low/mid stakes pros folding 90% of hands while they best hand the fish doesn't not help the poker room or provide entertainment to viewers.

I've never played there in multiple trips to Vegas, but I do look them up on Bravo. Does Bellagio even run PLO games at the stakes you would expect to see streamed?

They don't spread the mix but they definitely should if they care about the real customers they need to keep happy (hint: it's not pros)

A PL mix can run deceptively big. A PL big o, PLO, and PL 2-7 TD mix with 5-5 blinds will start slow but can quickly turn into a game bigger than any 5-10 nlhe. That mix is basically the crack cocaine of poker.

The commentary on the stream is already terrible enough. If you try any game other than hold-em the stream will be impossible to follow for anyone who isn't already very experienced in the game.

Also, I'm not sure why Bellagio would want to show a game they don't actually spread. (I realize they don't spread a 3-blind game, but 2/5/10 seems pretty close to the regular 5/10 game.) Would be cool to see the 40/80 LHE or 20/40 O8 game on the stream sometime though.

Don't know why you are getting so wound up over PL. If a lot of people wanted to play it, it would run more often.

I doubt that people want to see big pots in games they don't and will never play more than medium pots in games they actually play. (They would probably prefer to see big pots in games they actually play.)

If a PL mix is so great, then what poker rooms regularly spread it to cater to people hooked on it? The real customers are the non-pros who show up to the room to play. What games are they playing?

I do play some PLO. As far as I can tell, the best strategy against that game is often tight and super-boring poker (for live, full-ring).

I assume he thinks he has an edge in those games and is desperate to get a non-zero number of players interested in playing against him.

2-7 TD, really any lowball game is incredibly "easy" to play and understand from a viewers perspective. Three draw rounds- best 5 card low wins. That's it.

PLO- i'd wager almost everyone that has been around poker has played at least a little bit of PLO to know the basics.

PL Big O- It's just another variant of omaha, played with 5 cards instead of 4, and it's a high/low split pot game.

done

In depth, highly analytical commentary (almost like a training/ coaching video) is a super bad idea. People just like to watch other people gamble in a game with lots of action that appears to be fun. That's it. Don't believe me? What about the stone degens railing bitcoin dice? or nerd degens railing skin flips?

If people were given a legit chance to play a fun, gambly poker game that's being actually promoted by the casino outside of WSOP- yeah i think more people would gravitate towards the mix rather than sit with the young broke pros and OMCs at the nl tables.

I'm wound up because i still actually want to be able to play in a public poker game that's fun and action filled when i'm old, NLHE is dead. The poker rooms needs to actively promote new, exciting poker games that fish can actually win at. ESPN isn't going to do it for them.


bitcoin dice. csgo skin flips. need i say more? degens will degen- but they need a game they think they have a fighting chance to win at. They are drawing dead at NLHE vs pros, the smart ones know this and that's why every single action player plays PLO over NL.



NLHE is my best game. If I wanted to create a bigger edge for myself I would be promoting short handed, no limit deep play. I'm not though. I'm promoting a game that is fun for everyone- and gives EVERYONE a much bigger chance to be much more bigger and more frequent winners. All i see in this thread are the same one trick ponies/ nlhe nit grinders who don't want to see their bottom line evaporate.

I have no idea what "bitcoin dice" or "skin flips" are. But I know ESPN tried to show non-NLHE games on their broadcasts for a few years. I loved it, but apparently it failed. And that is with commentators able to methodically explain what is going on, cameras on every player, and graphics that are added in post-production.

The problem with adding additional games is not with people not knowing the rules. It is being able to follow the games in real time. Even when the game is NLHE, which everyone knows very well, I have trouble following hands on this stream, because the graphics lag behind the action, and the commentators are rarely paying attention to the actual hand. I'm not suggesting super-deep strategy discussion. I'd just like the commentators to do a better job helping viewers to follow the action. If they can't do this in NLHE, they will be hopeless in a 5-card split-pot game.

If Bellagio wanted to try another game, it seems like the obvious answer would be LHE. This is a game that everyone understands the rules of, that has lots of action, and that the Bellagio actually spreads and supports every day.

ESPN =/= live streams/ twitch/ vlogs. It's a completely different demographic. The choppy graphics/ errors in RFID aren't the main source of a ****ty game- stop making excuses- the reason it's a ****ty boring game is due to the game itself and the players in it. No more.

Commentators are replaceable. The commentators should be replaced regardless- they know nothing of poker. Commentating draw games and plo games is incredibly easy and self-explanatory. Especially considering the demographic these kinds of streams are hitting- people who already play poker. As i said before- in depth analytic commentating should not be the focus- the focus of commentating should only be keeping the viewers informed of the action and who's ahead/behind etc (which the graphics already do ffs).

LHE is literally dying off. The people in the games are literally dying and the game are drying up. New, young people simply aren't interested in fixed limit structures. I like fixed limit, but with all the other forms of entertainment/ action out there- it simply isn't enough to keep young crowds interested. Which is exactly why PL mix is king.