Hello !
My girlfriend and I just came back from a 3 months of grind in Las Vegas. I try to make here a readable and informational report.
Our background : we are french, playing poker since about 7 years, both live and online. Before we come to Vegas, we grinded online low stakes SNG in order to built our bk for the trip.
We decided to go to sin city the 21st of november, being allowed to stay in the country as tourists with no visa for 3 months, our flight back is on the 17th of February. Our bk for the whole trip is around 10k. We supposed it should be enough as we would have no big expenses but the rent. We had 2.5k$ in cash from a previous trip, the perfect plan would be to start with that and not to have to withdrawal any other money from our french bank account. Oh yeah, we’ve been to LV before, like 4 times but no more than 2 weeks.
Before arriving in LV, we investigated in order to find a place to stay. No way we stay on a strip hotel for 3 months, we need a kitchen as well,because, sorry guys but your food out there sucks. We found three different options : Tuscany, Holyday Royale and Blair House Suites. We booked the first night at the Imperial Palace and then the idea was to visit the above-named places.
We finally choosed the Blair House as people we know stayed there before and because of the convenient situation of the place (we don’t have a car) and while visiting it looked decent and like situated in a safe area. Quick review for the Blair House :
- Well located to go by feet on the center of the strip (30 minutes to the Caesar for example). You might take the deuce in the summer if it's too hot.
- Safe (no problem in 3 month walking there at anytime day and night)
- Room hmmm only ok ok.
- Not very competent staff (take everytime several days (weeks) to have broken stuff repaired). Friendly staff tho.
- Housekeeping done only 2 times on 3.
- In fact if we return to LV, we won't go there again. You can find better.
Poker. Our plan is to grind 1/2 and 1/3 cash games, no tournaments as the structure and rake sucks. Maybe one time to time as a break and as a distraction or if an interesting event occurs.
The first 15 days, we kinda ‘hit and run’ a lot, for several reasons : playing short sessions as we were tired because of the jetlag, didn’t want to start in a high variance rythm, hit one’s stride and the time it takes to reach a near-A game. It means that after benefits as small as 30-100$ we used to change the place. This had also another property : try a lot of different poker rooms.
We also decided to grind the rakeback with the freerolls offer. Ok, it’s not really a rakeback as they drop in the ‘jackpot box’. We started to meet the low stake regulars and we realised a lot of them do that. As we don’t dare walking and we like to play on different places, why not ? In fact a lot of the money which is dropped in the ‘jackpot box’ (and finally goes to the freeroll) comes from the tourists who play like only once in a while and won’t be here for the end of month freeroll, I though so it would be EV+ to play those freerolls.
You’ll find here some informations on the
freeroll we played and the equity based on the number of players showing up and considering everybody is as good (or as bad ; ICM stuff). In fact I guess equity is a little bit more for a 2+2 reader as he should be better than the average player, anyway :
- Harrah’s freeroll : monthly, 30 hours of play required, 10k guaranteed, 20 firsts take 500$, an average of 50 people show up : equity =200$.
- TI freeroll : weekly, 10 hours, 2.5k guaranteed, 10 firsts payed, structured layout like 100$ for 10th, 1000$ for first, players used to chopped 5 left or so. 20 showed up usually, equity = 125$
- Rio freeroll : biweekly, 20 hours, 15k guaranteed, 30 first take 500$, usually 60 players show up, equity = 250$.
- Riviera freeroll : weekly, 15 hours to qualify but hours count double from 3 to 7 am, so 7.5 hours required if you are organised, 2500$ guaranteed. Usually 15 players showed up ! So the tournament was not even occured and the player splited, equity = 167$.
- Mirage Freeroll : trimester : 25 hours, 50k, every one who shew up had 50$, >400 people were there, it’s like a 75$ equity beside the 50$.
- Binion : monthly, 25 hours, 50k, 150 players, equity = 333$
Of course, we couldn’t play each one every week or every month, we played all those mentionned at least once. As well as the Flamingo and IP, but i don’t give the details.
Based on the harrahs freeroll, the 200$ equity for 30 hours is a 6.67$ per hour thus a 3bb/hour, non negligible. Of course, we have to argue that for each pot you win, 1$ get robbed for the jackpot. I don’t want to go deeper in this discussion as it has probably been done somewhere in the forum, and the conclusion is probably that it’s best to play in room with no jackpot drop. Actually, after reading some forums, it seems that the drop cost you like 5$/hours, thus it still ev+ to grind the freeroll.
We also played one week in LA during the WSOPC at the bicycle, we rented a car and been there with 2 regulars, sleeping in a hotel just above the street. The game is pretty soft too out there. I’d like to mention the stupid fact that the people there still chopp the blinds despite the fact the pot is raked anyway (1$ is taken from the sb after a pot is chopped lmao). The game is still good tho and the food is free for the CG player, and way more decent than in LV. Also, it’s fun to play those low limit stud and omaha games. Concerning the tournaments, we played only 3 times the 150$ turbo’s and never cashed. Unlucky probably, but also we might have not adjusted to the turbo structure and were too much on the cash game mode. We’ve played one session at the Commerce also, huge room, I prefer the Bicycle tho.
Back to LV, still ‘grinding the freerolls but starting to think about the fact it could be more optimum to table select. That’s why we seriously started to play at the Bally’s and Planet Hollywood. Solid donkeys and fishes out there. I think our winrate seriously increased as we played in those rooms. You can see there stuff like raise in the dark from mp 60$ and then donk bet dark before the flop comes like 160$, finally the hand finishes all in dark preflop for crazy guy with J4o vs AK for a random. Something you’ll never see in Harrahs for instance.
Not as a brag (only
), you can see the screen capture of our results in an Excell sheet :
(OMG, I realised showing these graphes in public is pretty braggy for me compare to my GF; well girls sucks at poker, it is well known. Sorry girl - lol, we know you ran pretty bad, and wow you crushed me on the tournaments)
This second graphe represents the tournaments :
We tried to keep track of our results as more precisely as possible. The 1st graphe represents the money earned in the vertical coordinate (in $) function of the number of sessions (horizontal). In fact we can clearly see the 3 phases : first part : « hit and run », the curve slightly increase (from session 1 to session 75) then second part : normal length-session from session 80 to session 140 still without table selection, and finally table selection from session 180 to the end.
Ok, ok the sample is not big, but my
conclusion is, (nothing new so far) that :
First : the game is easily beatable if you play a solid ABC game (premium + setmining), you’ll have like a medium winrate of 3-5BB/hours (mostly the type of play my girflriend did, with some widening at the end).
Second : the game is very juicy if you play a loose aggressive game on the passive tables (which are moslty the case in vegas). Playing potential hands from almost any position, and almost ATC from the bouton. Those guy limps and want to see cheap flops, basically, they hate to see you raise (like 11$ only for instance) and you will outplay them postflop head’s up or 3 way.
The table dynamic is the key tho, and sometimes it could be more juicy (or at least lower variance) to switch to an ABC/setmine/monster mode.
Concerning the Freerolls, I finally think it’s a mistake to grind those as, first you will play with a bunch of tight regs who are only here to ‘do their hours’, and second there is a danger that yourself go to a mode where you don’t play poker anymore but you are here in a kind of ‘job-mode’ to do the hours too and not sitting playing an A, full of attention game. To my mind it is way more juicy and fun to table select and try to be a shark in the fishes’ bowl.
Anyway, if you are organised, focused and have the will to play to win, you can make money from grinding the low limit stakes : maybe like around 5k a month. The few shots I took to the 2/5 games shew me a higher variance, but not that much better game (specially at PH, Mirage and MGM).
Off-poker. We’ve seen the Beatles show at the Mirage which was beautiful, we’ve been to the Spa at the Palms (It was a couple trip …) which was really relaxing, we rented a car and had a 10 days trip with my uncle to California which was just great.
And we met a lot of regs. The vast majority are very very nice guys. You meet them every day and it as for effect to create some close links. If you read me, thank you again guys for everything. With those friends we could do off-strip stuff (like eat in some non tourist spots and blow some fireworks and nextime (hopefully) hunt coyotes with a bow (poor hillbillys
) ). We’ve been to TAO and to the PH night clubs, both sucks and are just jokes for me. Some Diamonds buddy (from the Total Reward offer) took us to some Diamond lounge, that was pretty cool too and relaxing, drinking decent red wine and eat free food. I regret I didn’t gamble any more casino/degen games like craps tho and that we didn’t go to bowling or to some other shows. Great experience anyway if you like poker, and for sure our level increased a lot playing everyday and discussing about hand with regs.
Thanks Todd, Dustin, David, Len, 99.9% of the dealers and floorman' and of course Lisa THE ph cocktail girl
(a gin tonic please!) and to all the nice guys over there.
Two Plus Two
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