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Old 01-27-2010, 12:59 PM   #76
Zacharrrr
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

well to be fair you can call all victims of any scam naive.

Every person that got scammed, is in some perspective, naive.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:59 PM   #77
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
Jason's prop bet cannot be coordinated on 2+2, we don't want to be associated with something like this. If Stoxpoker wishes to be the recipient of the prop bet then so be it, but 2+2 does not wish to be the intermediary. Please take this part of the discussion elsewhere. A prop bet is a very poor way to prove innocence in this dispute, on a personal note I do not recommend that anyone get involved.



I cannot comment on the innosence or guilt of Jason Ho, but I can say that there seems to be a common thread so far for the accusers - they all see to be naive. For example vassy's trust that it is safe to post his email address and skype name publicly in a community of 4 million + visitors a month, casper's sharing of his account, and their belief that they had the one coach who solved capped PLO but nobody else knows this secret except those who are coached by him is indicative of their naivety.
Although they may be naive the fact is Stoxpoker is a trusted name and they should have vetted Jason Ho more thoroughly than they did (assuming he is in fact a scammer)
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:14 PM   #78
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by *TT* View Post

I cannot comment on the innosence or guilt of Jason Ho, but I can say that there seems to be a common thread so far for the accusers - they all see to be naive. For example vassy's trust that it is safe to post his email address and skype name publicly in a community of 4 million + visitors a month, casper's sharing of his account, and their belief that they had the one coach who solved capped PLO but nobody else knows this secret except those who are coached by him is indicative of their naivety.
This is a fair comment. I admit I have been naive and gullible, and I have been burnt in the past. Alot of poker is based on a dream of getting to high stakes, winning a major tournament etc, and its this kind of dream which attracts both sharks and fish to the tables.

However, he is a Stoxpoker coach and judging from his background, I knew that he'd worked in Investment Banking and had run a successful oriental clubbing promotion in London (Zennation if you want to look it up). When I arrived in Macau he was ultra busy with coaching, I was lacking the motivation and self belief in myself and my poker game and Jason appeared to have these qualities about himself. He chose me well.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:19 PM   #79
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
I cannot comment on the innosence or guilt of Jason Ho, but I can say that there seems to be a common thread so far for the accusers - they all see to be naive. For example vassy's trust that it is safe to post his email address and skype name publicly in a community of 4 million + visitors a month, casper's sharing of his account, and their belief that they had the one coach who solved capped PLO but nobody else knows this secret except those who are coached by him is indicative of their naivety.
So would you then also say that stoxpoker is naive for associating themselves with a coach who has solved capped PLO?
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:21 PM   #80
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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well to be fair you can call all victims of any scam naive.

Every person that got scammed, is in some perspective, naive.
My statement about naivety isn't damming the alleged victims, it is just showing that there is a common thread, nothing more.

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So would you then also say that stoxpoker is naive for associating themselves with a coach who has solved capped PLO?
I think thats an unfair assessment, we know that the claims of solving capped PLO were made to the alleged victims, we do not know that this claim was made to Stoxpoker management.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:37 PM   #81
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
I cannot comment on the innosence or guilt of Jason Ho, but I can say that there seems to be a common thread so far for the accusers - they all see to be naive. For example vassy's trust that it is safe to post his email address and skype name publicly in a community of 4 million + visitors a month, casper's sharing of his account, and their belief that they had the one coach who solved capped PLO but nobody else knows this secret except those who are coached by him is indicative of their naivety.
Umm, yes, successful scammers tend to prey on naive people, that's how they get successful. I don't really get what you are trying to say here - this is hardly groundbreaking news.

Also nthing the opinion that it's important that Stox come back at some point with full disclosure about Jason - what they knew when, whether the $1m claims and suchlike were checked and if so how and when (and if not why the hell not), and so on and so forth.

And even given no other information the retarded 'prop bet to prove innocence' is enough to assume guilt, as far as I'm concerned (assuming that guy is Jason, which I feel is safe to do seeing as no mods have contested it thus far, correct me if I'm wrong).
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:40 PM   #82
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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I think thats an unfair assessment, we know that the claims of solving capped PLO were made to the alleged victims, we do not know that this claim was made to Stoxpoker management.
Understood. But if the alleged statment is true, and it was made to multiple people, then we can comment on Jason Ho stating he either delusional or, intentionally being deceptive for ulterior purposes.


***I know, terrible run on sentence***
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:11 PM   #83
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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I think it's also important to highlight to people that Jason currently has an insolvency case open against him: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/databas...ber=0014492008

Jason, Given this information I'd be interested to know whether you declared this to investors and also how you planned to have people invest in you in the first place (if you are being honest and open with the UK government then they would be able to seize this money at anytime to cover your still outstanding debt).
how is this not getting more love? this is a complete trainwreck and I feel sorry for you guys who got taken advantage of.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:24 PM   #84
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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how is this not getting more love? this is a complete trainwreck and I feel sorry for you guys who got taken advantage of.
I'm just shocked that Stox didn't do a background check and find this+attempt to verify the 1mm profit claim. I mean this is the kind of thing most employers would find doing google searches before offering any contract. I mean I guess since both Jason and Ho are pretty common names it might not come up in google and such just seems like a proper background check would reveal that he had an insolvency for over 4 years (not sure when he was hired but after January of '09 was 4 years).

Either way seems like obviously the people who got scammed should have noticed something was up a bit earlier but I can understand getting caught up in it and really believing that with this one guy's help you can basically get rich and be set for life. Once you convince yourself of that you're already sucked in and going to be a lot more gullible.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately would have paid money back if he won and in his head thought he wasn't doing anything too wrong. From what I've read he just seems to have a gambling problem and needed money to finance his habits.

Anyway that's just the impression I got from this thread. I don't know the guy, never got coaching from him, and never watched any of his videos just my opinion what it seems like from the outside. Hopefully you guys can settle something but considering the UK government can't get their money seems like a longshot. Good luck.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:37 PM   #85
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Yeah, just to add to the chorus: from a blood-thirsty dramabomb perspective, sure I'd like to hear all the gory details about JH and how he (allegedly) duped his coachees, but the more pertinent question is how this guy came to be affiliated with Stox in the first place. I don't know what sort of vetting of new coaches goes on over there, but you'd think with a roster of Stox, LA, Bryce, et al., there'd be some sort of oversight of coach abilities. At some point, there's going to need to be some sort of statement from the Stox guys about how they found the guy, and on what basis they asked him to be one of their coaches.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:46 PM   #86
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Yeah, just to add to the chorus: from a blood-thirsty dramabomb perspective, sure I'd like to hear all the gory details about JH and how he (allegedly) duped his coachees, but the more pertinent question is how this guy came to be affiliated with Stox in the first place. I don't know what sort of vetting of new coaches goes on over there, but you'd think with a roster of Stox, LA, Bryce, et al., there'd be some sort of oversight of coach abilities. At some point, there's going to need to be some sort of statement from the Stox guys about how they found the guy, and on what basis they asked him to be one of their coaches.
Not only that. Leatherass just addmitted in his blog that he was onto Jason's scam a while back. If he was onto his scam a while ago, why didn't he raise any red flags? Assuming that Leatherass was still Lead Coach and Partner in Stox at the time.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:50 PM   #87
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Not only that. Leatherass just addmitted in his blog that he was onto Jason's scam a while back. If he was onto his scam a while ago, why didn't he raise any red flags? Assuming that Leatherass was still Lead Coach and Partner in Stox at the time.
Link?
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:57 PM   #88
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Link?
Post #50 in this thread.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:02 PM   #89
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Link?
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-blog...-scandals-sigh
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #90
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

I have no clue who alarm bells didn't go off after some of the stuff Jason Ho "claimed" to do. Looking at his poker results, the guy is a shortstacker and a big losing shortstacker at that... maybe he should get ImsaKidd for coaching?
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:11 PM   #91
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

Also, stoxpoker bears the brunt of this. They have a quasi fiduciary duty to their customers to ensure that there coaches are actually qualified. When these coaches start doing individual coaching and the site allows them to recruit students from their customer base, it becomes even more imperative because students would rely on the Stoxpoker brand to justify the prices.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:25 PM   #92
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

sigh if i had a nickel for every time someone claimed to be a big winner and just straight lost on all their sn's, all his losses are his students money, the best is in the story where he is writing a program everyone will buy for $100,000, right there i woulda dropped him as a coach knowing that he was clearly bs

positive side to those that got scammed, he is broke now and with your help coming out he won't be able to get any money out of scamming people to build a roll
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:26 PM   #93
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

also why would anyone accept a prop bet from you if it is clear you are a very untrustworthy person?
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:36 PM   #94
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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if we type "jason ho" enough in this thread, maybe it will show up #1 in google search results so he can't scam others!

right now it's #7
Google "Jason Ho Scam" the results are much more "satisfying". Agree with you though, dethroning the no1 spot on his name would be quite an achievement for this thread's profile.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:37 PM   #95
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Also, stoxpoker bears the brunt of this. They have a quasi fiduciary duty to their customers to ensure that there coaches are actually qualified. When these coaches start doing individual coaching and the site allows them to recruit students from their customer base, it becomes even more imperative because students would rely on the Stoxpoker brand to justify the prices.
I couldn't agree more with this comment - stronger coach vetting by all the major sites is needed.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:52 PM   #96
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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Also, stoxpoker bears the brunt of this. They have a quasi fiduciary duty to their customers to ensure that there coaches are actually qualified. When these coaches start doing individual coaching and the site allows them to recruit students from their customer base, it becomes even more imperative because students would rely on the Stoxpoker brand to justify the prices.
+1

When alarm bells rang and the things Jason claimed did not make sense or add up, I'm sure his stoxpoker affiliation helped him get away with it. The scammed could use stoxpoker to justify continued dealings with Jason.

Jason Ho is a scammer!

Feel for you guys good luck!
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:02 PM   #97
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

I'd like to say that I have recently coached one of the members of this crew who got scammed. I had a look at the 'guide book' that Jason Ho was giving out to his students and I thought it was amateurish and laughable, not even vaguely the correct approach to learning poker.
As unfortunate as this episode is, I would like to dispel the notion that most coaches/video makers are losing players. not true at all, the coaches I know from DeucesCracked are winners and make the majority of their money from playing, not coaching. Not sure about outing their SNs here but quite a few have PTR graphs that clearly show them as solid winners.

Be that as it may I am going to bring up a discussion at DC about how better to verify that our coaches are winners teaching winning strategies, and to make sure we are vetting properly. If students of a poker site sense anything shady or receive odd requests like for staking or to use your account, I think this should be reported to the site's admins asap (btw I have coached for 2 yrs, I have NEVER asked a student for any staking money, to use their accts, etc. No real winning coach should have to ask for staking from students ever imo.)
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:10 PM   #98
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

this just all seems like too much to me. why would anyone give jason ho access to their ftp account? why would anyone let him play on their account? why would anyone let him transfer money to someone else from their account without their permission first? obviously jason did a good amount of screening these people before scamming them to make sure they were complete morans. if you have even a small bit of a brain you would realize you were getting scammed from the moment he asked you to create an FTP account so that he can play on it?

however, i really do hope justice is had because from what i've read ITT jason basically abused these ppl for their lack of brains and almost certainly just stole money from them. my 2c.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:11 PM   #99
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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these are accounts jason played at in the past

jadeblind, lilbebi, zen888, zenconcept, babiekwai, up_2_me if i know of more i will inform everyone. Feel free to look them up on pokertableratings
Up_2_Me is a student of Jason. This student went to Maccau for a 2 week intensive with Jason at the end of September thru the beginning of October of 2009.

Can you tell, by looking at the graph, when Jason started playing on his account?

http://www.pokertableratings.com/ful...search/up_2_me
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:17 PM   #100
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Re: Where did the Jason Ho thread get moved to?

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The overwhelming majority of Jason's students have had worse results after his coaching than beforehand. Many winning players have become losing or break-even players as a result of following his advice.

a) I was a consistent, high winning 2/4 NL 6 max player before coached by Jason Ho.
Please don't think that I'm rubbing salt in the wounds. But didn't you at least watch any of his videos. I would think that a good winner at 2-4 would suspect just from the videos that there was nothing to learn from him.

Quote:
b) I first paid Jason $4500 ($1500 +$3000) in coaching fees based on his StoxPoker.com reputation.


Again, I'm sorry for your money.

But more importantly, I'm sorry you went through such a long sorrowful experience.

Last edited by flight2q; 01-27-2010 at 04:31 PM.
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