Hey Denks, his staking credentials are his poker credentials. Stox allowed this tool to claim 1MM+ in winnings and did nothing to verify his record.

TT, this has been "resolved" as far as Stox is concerned so please move this back to NVG so these guys can get some other opinions. It seems that most of the posters in here are Stox fanboys, a few attorneys opinions would be appreciated.

No, his staking credentials are nothing to do with his playing credentials. If I say "this person is a good poker player" in no way, shape or form does this mean "I think you should trust this person with your money". Did Stox at any point say something to the effect of "JH has earned his backers large returns on the money they invested in him"? What happens sucks - it sucks really badly - however that's business. What is being proposed is that because Stox claimed JH was a good poker player any losses suffered in investments related to JH should also be covered by Stox. Just because people say something you don't want to hear does not mean they are fanboys.

I am making a challenge to Jason Ho.

For those of you who don't know me, I am one of the mixed game coaches at Stoxpoker. I don't play NL, and to be honest, I hate the game. However, I am willing to issue a challenge to Jason Ho.

Here is my challenge: I am willing to bet that I will have a higher winrate at NLHE cash games for 2010 than you. Allow me to remind you, I DO NOT PLAY NLHE AT ALL. (You can verify this by looking me up on PTR). I have no clue what my winrate would be or even should be, but I'm confident that it will be higher than yours if I take this bet.

I don't care what the limitations of the wager are. (I don't care if we play 6 max or 9, $1/2, $3/6 or $25/50 blinds - although I'm confident I can't beat the 25/50 game without learning how to play NL first, however I somehow get the feeling that won't be necessary). There will have to be a minimum number of hands played for this challenge, however, I am NOT going to play 1 million hands (per what your previous challenge included) nor anywhere close to that of NLHE. Funds MUST be held in escrow, sorry but your IOU's simply won't cut it.

my screen names are as follows:
FTP: THE L3VIATHAN
Stars: tj_trail

All holdem hands you will find on PTR are from LHE. There are only about 25k hands on my stars name and about the same on my FTP account. I'm even losing money on the FTP account, so this should be easy for you (granted, those 23k hands I'm losing were from me experimenting with another Stoxpoker LHE coach's style that didn't work for me). None the less, I'm confident that I can beat your winrate in a game I NEVER play, even if you put in 1M hands per year at it.

Also, we could make this a combo challenge sorta like Dusty's Golf/Poker challenge of yesteryear. Instead of Golf/Poker, we could do Math/Poker. In the math portion of the challenge, we will each receive the same math test consisting of problems ranging from highschool math to 400 level coursework. I'll even give you 3:1 odds on the math exam.

What do you say? PM me if you are interested. I'm not trying to be facetious, I think this could be fun (even though I truly HATE NLHE).

That's not fair to say. He can scam Stox with forged results just as easily as he can scam anyone else. I don't think this is Stox's fault by any means. It's unfortunate that he was able to use them to leverage his scam, but that doesn't make them directly responsible for his actions.

After reading a few of the testimonials, I must admit that I'm blown away at how much money and trust these guys were throwing at JH. His methods sound ridiculous to me and that would have been flag 1. I've never had a student contact me without demanding some proof of my claims. Why would anyone ship someone $10,000 for poker lessons without at least asking to see some evidence of what that person is capable of. It's not like they just threw the guy 100 bucks to test him out first. This is real money we are talking about. Certainly some responsibility lies with the student as well.

"Here is my challenge: I am willing to bet that I will have a higher winrate at NLHE cash games for 2010 than you. Allow me to remind you, I DO NOT PLAY NLHE AT ALL. (You can verify this by looking me up on PTR). "

Are you freakin serious?!? If the company you worked for had looked up Jason Ho in the first place we wouldn't be here. And you think this is a good idea and might be fun? One guy estimates his losses at 100K plus, but at least you got a good challenge out it huh? Boy, Stox is looking worse and worse every day.

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with Stox. I have no ownership interests of any kind at stox. They simply pay me to make HORSE videos for them. I'm simply making a challenge to Jason. He's claiming he's exhonerated of the charges against him and that he's a winning player. I want to challenge him. That's it. Plain and simple. Nothing further to read into.

Yeah relax dude......what's your problem?

rainmantrail, what is 400 level coursework?

He means courses meant for juniors and seniors. At a lot of schools this will include 500-level as well. They are usually the same as 400 level, just allowing more flexibility with related numbering. E.g.,

420, Basket Weaving with Hemp
520, THC: The Miracle Antioxidant

why would a coaches private prop bet in some forum reflect badly on stoxpoker?

And just because the VAST majority of posters disagree with you doesn't make them stox fanboys. lol

Personally, I think as as company they shouldn't be responsible for every private lesson he ever sets up. Just like a teachers school would not be held responsible if said teacher did not turn up to a PRIVATE lesson.

RainmanTrail = giant facepalm...
Sombody from Stoxx better tell him to stop posting as long as he`s associated with them in any way...

Surely taking legal advice here is essential.

Think of it like consulting PokerStove to see where you are in a hand.

Here's what you already know:
- what you are holding
- what CR/Stox is holding
- the size of your payout if you take the current offered settlement
- the total amount you were scammed

What you seem to be unsure of is:
- the extent to which you are entitled to more than the current settlement
- the % chance of getting what you might be entitled to (if it is a bit of a "grey area")

I'm not saying the settlement offered is necessarily bad.

I am saying that if I could afford it I would be taking the opportunity to review this with someone who knows what they are talking about.

If I were in CR/Stox shoes I would have taken this advice already, and my proposed payout would be set at a level high enough to be aparently reasonable but well below the level of the most likely liability scenario.

I don't really wish to elaborate too much, but here are a couple of reasons:

1) It could be construed as a bit insensitive since if he did have money to escrow, the victims are sitting here with their wangs in their hands.

2) This guy is a degen gambler with no money that filed bankruptcy due to his gambling debts, and then started anew in another country having people fund his gambling addiction. In other words, there's no way he's going to take this prop bet ever, and the challenger must know this, so it makes the entire prop bet one of those NVG bets you see all the time where everyone is full of **** waving their 11" internet dicks in everyone's face.

Yeah, yeah... I know you're serious, but when you combine the slim chance that Jason would do it, and you both can agree to a dozen conditions of the bet etc., you know there's no way it's ever going down, and thus you look silly.

again i ask if anyones investigated as to whether the crew fund were actually lost or "dumped".

yeah, i agree it is a poor idea from him, just don't think it reflects much at all on stoxpoker. Not like stoxpoker issued the challenge - just some dude that makes videos for them.

btw. there is definitely some chance that ho would take this bet. He is a deluded degen after all - so why not.

It reflects badly on them (especially at this time) because people are just discussing that Stox might`ve made a poor choice when hiring J. Ho, and now another of their coaches comes out and publicly issues at totally pointless, immature, year-long challenge to someone who seems to be a scammer and might be broke as well.
People might start thinking that Ho wasnt their only poor choice when it comes to coaches, that`s why they dont agree with RainmanTrail posting what he did, because it DOES reflect negatively on Stox, no matter what he intended to achieve with his challenge...

meh, let's just say I don't think any will be canceling their subscription because one of their coaches fired up an ill advised prop bet. If people crossed off training sites from what their coaches said in blogs/forums, none of them would have any members at all..

Stox can't control every little thing their coaches say and do. Just like they can't control whether Jason puts in a good performance at his private coaching camps. They pay them to put out good video content.

It can only reflect badly on stox if you assume a training sites vetting process should be so in depth that it will pick up any personalities which might offer ******o prop bets in the future. Else, it just reflects badly on rainmantrail.

I disagree

I am for splitsuit taking him on, for me it is like he is sticking up for the little people .

This is starting to get funny. I'm looking forward to checking up on this wild thread come Monday. Hoping Jason Ho stops by...

Oh, and per the challenge. I was serious. I am serious. I also think there is a pretty good chance that Jason will accept my offer if he can find backers. And don't think he can't. You're naive if you think he can't get backers right now. I'm interested in a fun challenge. I don't think Jason is quite the losing player you guys all think he is. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's out there crushing the games, but I don't see this as a sweep under the rug. Again, remember, I don't play NLHE. I'm probably better at chutes and ladders than I am at NLHE.

I find this post disturbing on a number of levels. If I still had a Stox subscription I would close it if they continue to work with this person.

at this point, why would you trust jason ho at all? he has proven to be a liar and a cheat. if this prop bet does go down, do not be surprised if jason ho has someone else play his hands for him...

Jason- It is a shame there are so many haters in the world. They are clearly jealous of your poker success and PLO ability. You are one of the best players of your generation and a super cool guy to boot. Have you heard of The Durrrr Challange? I suggest you take it after PA is done and prove to the world how awesome you are!


P.S. Durrrr-I will lower finders fee to .001% for this one.

Of course if Jason could get the scratch together (uh... how much is this bet for again?), I would lay action that the both of you would never be able to agree to the terms of a bet, but in the meantime, I think it would be in your best interest to clarify just how much NLHE experience you've had. I don't think you have made that clear yet.

They'd stand more chance of getting some value out of it if they were prepared to accept Jason Ho's Dance Dance Revolution coaching as recompense.

If 2+2 was paying someone to do training videos for them and allowing them to use their site to advertise their coaching services, then yes, they probably should.

That said, it's an issue that's only really going to get settled in court. But if Jason Ho had scammed me, I'd be very doubtful of his ability to pay me back. I'd be going after stoxpoker's deeper pockets and let them try and get any potential losses from Ho.