For the people who keep posting Jason Ho is a scammer in the thread in the hope of boosting it up google, you would need to link the text to his website for google to take much notice of it. Google heavily weights link text as referring to what it points to. Even better would be to link to this thread from other sites with the text Jason Ho is a scammer as the link text. Just posting the text in this thread will have no effect.

i almost hired him to coach me last summer for 100nl good thing i didn't
i still remember he had packages he was selling like
jedi package --- lawlawlawlawlawl

After some digging...

http://www.dragonlink.co.uk/forums/s...5&postcount=15
"Re:career goals
World domination :-X
if that doesnt work then I guess I settle for half of the worlds GDP."


http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
"Other Related Qualities:
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world"


How curious...

I guess Jason Ho took the phrase, "never give a sucker an even break" to a whole new level.

I just deleted a bunch of posts where the only purpose was to increase search engine rankings for the terms listed below. I know your intentions are good, but we don't want 2+2 to be used this way, it sets a bad precedent. Please stop.

jason ho scammer
jason ho is a scammer
jason ho liar
jason ho is a liar
jason ho poker scammer
jason ho poker scam

Jim,

As part of the group, mostly consisting of long-term students, that brought this scandal to the attention of the online poker community last week, I want to offer my personal thoughts to the proposed solution. I notice there is a view among many on the forums that students of Jason’s are lucky to get anything at all from Stoxpoker because it should have been obvious that Jason was horrible at poker or we were too gullible to trust someone with his claims.

First of all, the group all agree that Stoxpoker is not responsible for losses in the PLO Fund, staking losses, unauthorized transfers from our account, and losses/dumping Jason made from our accounts regardless that such losses would not have taken place if not for the fact that Jason was a Stox-endorsed coach.

“We will reimburse for 100% of the first two payments for any coaching services with Jason and 50% of a 3rd. We will not reimburse for any payments after the 3rd.”

This is a wonderful solution for short-term students, who would be the majority of Jason’s students. But because of the glowing endorsement of him by your site, Jason likely had more students than he could juggle. Thus, he likely pegged students as ones he could either get a quick score from or quickly dump, and then those to build trust and target as long-term suckers. The group that brought this matter to yours and everyone’s attention, preventing further Stox members from being scammed, would be the long-term suckers.

Otherwise, it’s clear that those short-term students would not have come forth without us for various reasons including embarrassment, and fear of intimidation and ridicule. They may have felt that they were at fault for being bad students, slow learners, or, per another student in this thread who was paying Jason $150/hr, felt too intimidated to challenge someone who regularly posted very nice screenshots of winning sessions including a one-day 75K profit graph on his Stoxblog.

After reading my statement on 2+2, one ex-short-term student pm’d me and then posted his story on the forums after I encouraged him to. He explained that Jason tried to sell him into an “arbitrage” business in only their second coaching session and then attempted to hit upon him for $100,000 to invest in that business in only their third session! Jason obviously was impatient and moved too fast on that student but he took a longer-term approach towards me and some others. He only hit on me for a relatively small increment of $3000 for 10 lessons midway through my initial payment of $1500 for 5 lessons. Some crew members were playing small stakes (NL50) when they approached Jason through Stoxpoker and whatever reasons, he decided to take a long-term approach towards them as well perhaps figuring out they may have had other funds.

To my great misfortune, Jason did not no-show for my first or second coaching lesson as per some other student’s experience nor was he rude to me during my first lesson per another student’s experience in this thread. Otherwise, I would have immediately stopped the coaching and then I would be fully compensated under your plan.

Instead, Jason was initially pleasant, predicted great things for me, and also sold me on how 2 other Stox coaches and high-stakes regulars, Leatherass and Cottonseed, were getting coaching from him and sent him their databases (Leatherass has since posted on his blog that he rejected Jason’s offer and didn’t send his database). Perhaps I was naïve to take at face value a Stoxpoker coach’s claim of his relationship with other Stoxpoker coaches when another Stoxpoker coach (Jared Tendler) had already endorsed him in the forums? (But note: I pm’d Cottonseed and he confirmed Jason’s claims that Cottonseed sent him his database and was paying Jason $1000/hr for coaching as true. Besides that, Jason, unsolicited, forwarded me emails between him and Cottonseed where they discussed strategy. Cottonseed also believed Jason was legitimate, relying on Jason’s status as a Stox coach before eventually choosing not to follow his advice. I’ve since been told by the crew that another Stox coach, Owen “QTip” Gaines, trusted Jason enough to send him his database.

“In closing, I am sorry for the pain this entire situation has caused for those directly involved and the course of action we are undertaking is a demonstration of StoxPoker’s willingness to address this head-on and take financial responsibility where appropriate.”

I only ask to be put in the approximate position that I ‘reasonably’ would be in right now had Stoxpoker conducted a basic background check. Such a check would have meant that Jason Ho would never have been on my radar when I decided to seek coaching on your private coaching forum. I stated in my original statement what my association with him has cost me in terms of lost opportunity costs, bankroll and confidence damages (about $150,000). And if I had found a non-endorsed, regular member, coach (even a Jason-clone) on your forums, I would have conducted my own check of that coach’s claim to winnings/stakes played and not have felt that Stoxpoker would be responsible for anything.

I have been a member of Stoxpoker since mid-2005 and I chose Jason based on the fabulous reputation he had on your site advertising his “excellent results” at levels up to 25/50 NL 6 Max and being a $1M winner (By not challenging him on that $1M claim, I view that as Stoxpoker implicitly endorsing it). I remain bitter and so disappointed that Stoxpoker, which I used as a good resource to grind from micro-limits to succeeding at mid-level limits and which I entrusted to help me continue moving up to higher mid-level limits, has instead been responsible for me moving down to low-level limits.

I sought coaching at the moment when I was most confident in my skills and had my strongest mental game in place (It’s likely a testament to my overall game back then that I could listen to bad advice and still play good poker). The results started to show after my third payment ($1500 + $3000 + $20,000 Intensive Course) which by coincidence was my third and largest payment). The Intensive Course involved 40 hours of coaching spread over 2 weeks and that’s only when the coaching incrementally began consisting of very bad advice. But the Intensive Course was really the first time I played 5/10 NL 6 Max so I did not have the sophistication to questions the lines Jason had me take.

Essentially, I’m being punished by this compensation plan because I continued to play well for about 2 months after Jason’s coaching (1 hour/week for 7 weeks) even though I had played well the prior 22 months before coaching. Like other students have posted, when Jason would suggest unorthodox lines or strategies, I assumed he was thinking on a higher level than I was, especially given the fact that I sought coaching specifically to play at higher limits which I had no experience at. The cumulative effects of his bad coaching/later berating did not start showing up in my results until month 3 when I internalized his coaching advice and playing styles.

It's pretty sick you couldn't realize by yourself his advices were terrible.... I mean.... did he even back up his lines with any explanations? Explanations that made sense to you? If not, you are in big part to blame for your losses :/

What do you play now though? Do you even win at poker anymore? or has he clouded you so much you can't think by yourself anymore? T_T

It was my whole computer that was affected. But it gained access via chrome.

I find it hard to believe Cottonseed paid him 1k per hour.

If Jason didnt scam you for 150K it was just a matter of time before someone else did. I'm guessing you would of happily sent it to Nigeria because some guy emailed you saying he would give you 10 mil.

It is my understanding that you will be getting back over $14,000 under the plan as I posted it.

The fact that your 3rd payment to Jason was a $20,000 payment for something that was described to me as being Jason's "protege" had a big bearing on why we extended this to at least 50% of the third payment rather than just 100% of the first two payments.

If that increase in the overall payments to Jason's students, which was made almost specifically with your case in mind, still results in you feeling that you are being "punished", I can only say that i disagree and the payment methodology will not be changed.

Jim

Had somepeople come forward earlier Stox wouldn't be on the hook for as much as they are now. I think Stox took a more then genorous approach to this. I mean if you had doubts I am sure you could have contacted someone and gotten a Stox opinion on this. Buyer beware comes in there at some point.

I just don't understand how anyone could ever justify paying 20k for coaching(no matter who the coach is). If you were already beating your current games, how could you possibly expect a coach to improve your game so dramatically that it would justify such an expense. I personally see most coaching fees as ridiculous but in some cases acceptable, but 20k for some lessons is beyond absurd imo.

-

Stox is being more than fair. It sucks that Ho scammed you but you should be VERY thankful you are getting 14k back. Bitching about the 14k makes you look like a bitch.

it's quite sad how the mods don't move this thread to NVG and once the victims get their money back from stox, this will all be forgotten.

and jason ho scam can go back to scamming others.

i have a feeling this will be forgotten very fast...

Jason Ho, Stox Poker, and yourself are all to blame. The $14,500 compensation seems reasonable for Stox's role in this.

You're not the only one harmed here. Other students were harmed. All the coaches offering services through Stox were harmed.

The people to benefit are Jason Ho, plus some people who now might understand coaching is riskier than they thought. Good luck getting additional compensation from those people.

did jason take his website down?

Jason Ho is a bloody crook! Back in 2004 i played a game online called Outwar (Text Based version of World of Warcraft), Jason Ho Aka "Kyosuke" was the best player in the game, the reason i know this is because like 6 months ago i spoke to him on MSN to see what hes up to these days, and he told me about poker, and showed me his site, i knew his name was Jason from back in the Outwar days also.

He was leader of the best crew in the game called "Heaven and Earth" He had thousands and thousands of $ worth of gear, anyways i joined Heaven and Earth and 1 of the original Members, was friends with Jason, the leaders and others etc, we all had to give Jason our Login (Email and Password) so he could encrypt our passwords for us in his Database, so we wouldnt get hacked.

I had a problem with 1 of the other leaders on a Handout (Handing out of the items we won) 1 day, and i wake up the next day and my $1500 worth of Equipment i had worked years for had been all sold on the trading block, and all the points that my account got for the items were given to Jason and his Multiple Accounts.

Nobody would ever listen because Jason was the best player in the game, he did this to
so many people, and nobody would ever listen to us! He got away with stealing thousands upon thousands of $ worth of equipment.

Heres a picture from the Outwar days.

Maybe no one believed you because your story doesnt make a ton of sense. Why would you be friendly and chat with a dude who several years ago stole from you. Also why wouldn't he block you?

Based on facts I am inclined to believe it is true but it sounds more like you are relating stories of theivery you heard second hand rather than personal experience.

+EV

You are obviously clueless to the business world. Stox is the bitch here not the scammed individuals. They had the opportunity to flip this situation into a positive for the company and they failed to do so. Their company, either directly or indirectly led these individuals into a scam AND they admitted that they didn't do a proper background check thus providing an opportunity to a crook. Its embarrassing.

They admit being the cause of the problem, take 100% responsibility with words and then fail to compensate these individuals 100% on their losses. This is not how a good business is ran.

These people (Stox/CR) are making a ton of money off poker players of all stakes in a business that can be debated as a complete scam & when their company is found to be in the middle of a huge sub-scam they act as if they are only responsible for a portion of the losses. Its a joke. Step up and grow some balls Stox. Take the hit to your pockets in return for a positive boost for the company. It can only work out in your favor in the long run. Isn't that a concept that you people understand as poker coaches? How can you not realize that you're hurting your company by not refunding these people 100%. I for one will never use your service solely based on the outcome of this situation.

Man up and take the hit. Make good on all losses & move forward with a new found respect for doing the right thing. Otherwise I stick to my initial thought. Embarrassing.

Is there any kind of "Buyer Beware" clause listed on Stox/CR? If their is that should have been a redflag before even signing up, that is nothing but a simple cop out to protect their internal scam & that is what has been put forth as part of the solution. It should not matter how gullible or naive these people were especially when dealing with a "game" that changes constantly and works on different levels. To expect someone to realize they are being scammed within 2-3 sessions of learning new material is absurd.

They came to YOU for help and used someone YOU employ and YOUR lack of research on the individual YOU were endorsing cost THEM money. PERIOD. YOU are the cause here, man up and be the ****ing solution as well. This repayment of the first 2 sessions and 50% of the third is truly embarrassing & anyone directly involved should be ashamed. Just do the right thing. Why is that so difficult now days?

The policy applies to the first 3 payments made to Jason Ho. If the first payment was for 5 sessions and there was a 2nd payment made for 10 sessions . . . then all 15 sessions are covered under our policy.

All of the payments that we are aware of to date covered multiple sessions.

Casper, don't sign anything that Stox sends you and I recommend you go see an attorney.

You call up a car service for a ride. The guy gets into an accident, you get hurt, and it turns out that his license has been suspended on several occasions. For whatever reason the car company never checked his driving record. The owner shows up at the hospital, apologizes profusely, and tries to give you $20.00 back, the cost of the ride. When you press him for medical expenses he says sorry, but I can't help you. Nobody in their right mind is going to say that you aren't entitled to damages. Go see a lawyer.