I feel for you, Casper, but my thoughts are the following:

- There's no way in hell you can claim that anyone other than you is responsible for losses suffered when you were at the controls. If JH was advocating a style you were uncomfortable with, you should have test-driven it at lower stakes. That's like a MLB baseball slugger complaining that a new batting stance advocated by his hitting coach cost him millions because he didn't enjoy as much success with it as with his old batting stance. He should have test-driven it more in batting practice and used his own noggin to think critically about it, keeping what worked and throwing out the rest.

- You're admitting to cheating by allowing someone else to play on your FTP account...?(!) Obviously this doesn't excuse JH's actions, as reported, but you're not exactly endearing yourself her either.

- You gave the guy, who had already begun showing signs of serious shadiness the password to your poker account?

Anyway, I'll quit giving you a hard time. I'm sorry you lost so much. I look forward to the drama bomb once the main thread gets re-opened. I just couldn't help but think, as I read through your post, that there were like a dozen or more red flags that would have sent my 'run-forrest-run' antennae a-blazin'.

EDIT: PS Jim from Stoxpoker > did you guys do any sort of diligence on JH's claim of being a 1M+ / yr winner or just take him at his word and let him advertise himself as such? It seems that a common comment from the cheated folks is that he didn't come across as much more than a mediocre player, if that.

Casper, when did you send your recap to Stox?

Seems to me this was just a failed coaching experiment. If Jason Ho was truly a crook he would have just stole money out of your account when he got your password. Sorry you lost your money, but to me this is just a coaching arrangement that ran on the bottom side of its variance.

All of the accusations were made by anonymous posters hiding their identity used to slander Jason Ho. When 2+2 management gets wind of something like this occuring we will always shut it down, regardless of the truth in the matter; we cannot allow the forums to become a "bully pulpit" to pick on a target anonymously, the target has the right to know who is accusing him. Everyone who posted anonymously will be banned, the anonymous accounts aren't welcome here. From what I have read so far the accusations are pretty serious by the motive of the accusers (with the exception of CasperW) seem to be disingenuous, why hide behind an anonymous gimmick account if your trying to have the losses repaid?

You can contact the management at Stoxpoker who have been willing all along to help you solve this issue. Coming into 2+2 with an anonymous account to slander Jason Ho, even if the accusations are true, will not help your side of the story.

NotAJasonHoFan - CasperW has nothing to hide, this is how it should be done.

Jim has been trying to solve this problem over the past week, creating this thread in NVG doesn't help Jim find solutions faster - contacting Jim directly either here on 2+2 or via Stoxpoker is the best solution.

This is very serious, I applaud Jim's willingness to investigate and address the issue, if you were affected in this matter please contact Jim privately to help him resolve this issue as fast as possible. In the meantime I am moving this thread to Coaching Advice where it is most topically relevant, any NVG'ers who want to continue to follow the thread are welcome to follow along.

Who spends that much money on a COACH for POKER? WOW. A card game ffs.

How does this differ from any other coach?

Aren't most coaching videos done by losing players?

Aren't most coaching videos done with the idea of upselling people to hourly coaching and other coaching programs?

Errr, this feels a little heavy-handed. Anonymous slander is certainly nothing to laugh at and I'm glad that 2p2 has some threshold for moving something to the mod forum until they decide what to do with it, but as I wrote above, this wasn't just a single anon Jan 2010 reg user coming on to say that XYZ has cooties; these were very detailed, admittedly serious, descriptions attested to not only be some new obvious gimmick-acct posters, BUT ALSO posters who have been around here for 3+ years. Ban the Jan 2010 posters if you must, but I think this thread was credible enough for discussion, no?

Why was this moved to the coaching forum Mods? This is News. I could understand if you wanted to cross post this but to just take it out of NVG is wrong IMO.

TT, it's not slander if it's true. I can understand NotaJasonHofan posting on a gimmick. He was probably embarassed and knew the multiaccounting and other shady activities would come out and didn't want to be embarrassed. I can also understand locking the thread because of the seriousness of the allegations being made by a new poster. But with Casper coming forward I believe his statements add weight to the original OP and should be moved back to NVG as a public service. My 2 cents.

Teddy -I am listening to your POV, and I do understand where your coming from. With that said you may not have seen what we saw, there were some complaints from legitimate users (and these can be reposted in this thread by the users who made them) but there were also far too many anonymous gimmick accounts. What bothered me personally is the coordination of the attack when Jim Varnon of Stoxpoker had already come forward asking for information but none was provided until after the coordinated attack - two rights dont make a wrong IMO, the best first step would have been to contact Jim so he can investigate and find a solution.

Its slander if the accused cannot face his attacker. We have a rather firm policy on issues like this, 2+2 doesnt want to be used for anonymous attacks.


If NotaJasonHofan's goal is to be reimbursed then how is hiding behind an anonymous gimmick account going to help him? As stated earlier two wrongs do not make a right, any of the accusers are free to post their experiences here - provided that they are not hiding behind a gimmick.

As for NVG, once there has been some movement in the right direction then the thread might move back to NVG, for now its more relevant to the coaching advice forum. Taking it out of NVG allows it to remain a serious topic, I think that is in the best interest of the accusers so they can focus on communicating their experiences and finding a solution rather than posting wild innuendo or tarding up the thread, I feel that by moving the thread here we are actually helping the people involved a lot more than if we left the thread in NVG.

K -- I have no problem waiting a day or 2 to see how this shakes out; I agree that 10 posters banding together and each posting a tl;dr i-was-scammed report within minutes of each other was a little disingenuous because its sole purpose was to hit with as many damaging allegations as possible in as short a time-frame as possible. i.e., it seemed like their concerted effort was just designed to damage JH's rep as much as possible, as fast as possible.

The other side of things, of course, is that just because someone has offered to investigate things behind the scenes and fix them if necessary doesn't mean that it should be kept from the 2p2 mob. What if when the UB/AP scandals hit, the sites had sought to make the scammed players (of which I was one) whole by refunding their losses, but asked you to keep all discussion of it off the 2p2 boards? Obviously that's not what happened, and the analogy is far from perfect, but the point is that just because someone has had some nasty things said about them in a public forum doesn't compel the forum moderators to remove the thread. The cynic in me would surmise that Stox's status as an advertiser in these forums has something to do with it. Should that matter? I guess we could argue about that point as well. At the end of the day, I agree that the brute-force attack of the posters was at the very least in a grey area, but I think this topic has to see the light of day sooner or later, irrespective of whether Stox or JH makes any sort of restitution to the players.

Well, technically it would be libel, not slander, but only if false. If it's true and substantiated, then it's neither.

FWIW, I do think it's pretty reasonable to temporarily move it to the mod forum until it can be determined whether there is any legitimacy to the claims. That is, provided it's not just swept up and covered up if it turns out to be true.

If this is the case, then locking the thread is obv the best solution. I didn't see the original thread, however TeddyFBI stated that the posts were from long standing 2+2 accounts. Was he mistaken? Perhaps the long standing accounts were long dormant gimmick accounts that you were able to match to known posters through their ip addresses?

dont worry, nobody is covering this up... we are only helping to find a solution faster, everything will be shared over time.

im sorry but how could you not just look at ptr and realize he wasn't a big winner?