Hey, I have set up an arrangement for coaching with someone who is new to coaching, I have also never had a coach.

We will be doing the sessions over skype for 90-120min. I was wondering if people would advise that we type in the chat or talk in a call. An important factor I am considering is that we can get many words in per minute by speech vs typing. On the other hand, I would very much like to be able to review the information or advice he gives me later on. Perhaps I could also record the audio of the calls, which is a new thought that just came to me.

Thanks for your thoughts

* prepare well. 80% of the quality of your coaching is your preparation. Have questions + possible answer + detailed notes.

* record screen+voice with camtasia studio or similar program

* TEST EVERYTHING 3 times. Things go wrong all the time and you need to make sure things will work when you need it

* obviously do speech. Typing coaching is bull****

* Have a specific goal of what you want to achieve in the session and let ur coach know about it so he can make it happen....or tell you to adapt

* Leave your ego at home. For whatever reason many students try to impress their coach although even their biggest achievement is not remotely impressive (and if it would be, it's the wrong coach).

Too many people, especially on forums, try to get a sense of self-worth by giving opinions on matters they are the least qualified to talk about. My favorite one is poor people giving advice to noobs on how to learn/ make money at poker (!!!). If the noobs do the exact opposite, they will do fine!
Some people even pay coaches not to learn from somebody who is obviously better, but to tell them THEIR VIEW !!!

MOST IMPORTANT:

* You should trust your coach that he can help you...if you don't, save your time & money. Because you trust your coach you should do 100% of what he says. Otherwise you're going nowhere

Sorry really don't agree with this.

Some of my most productive sessions both being coached and as a coach. Have been where me and coach/student have hammered out a discussion on certain spots often getting heated.

It encourages critical thinking and deep understanding of poker in general.

What you seem to suggest is do what your coach says no matter what. This surely is not conducive to learning effectively or developing a high level thought process.

Also as an aside if OP or whoever happens to pick a poor coach who cannot communicate ideas effectively it could actually be damaging to that players game.

I agree here. Stop excusing & being right
You have to gain trust with your coach. This could be graphs that the coach posted. You see that he is doing fine and that his strategies work.
Then there's the time to shut up and listen. You could have a session where you let your coach take control 100% and just listen what he says. Don't try to argue against at any point.

That is something I noticed recently after my coaching package is expiring. I should have listened the coach better, ask more questions and really try to understand what he says during coaching and not afterwards. If your coach is a crusher, there is no need to doubt anything that he says. You might have different views, i.e you're a nit and your coach is a station. Your coach may also play a lot higher than you do, so maybe he suggests excessive bluff catching, when people in your stake are not bluffing much.

Definitely go with speech over typing, unless you have very bad social anxiety.
Even then, if you can't express yourself correctly, have a skype chat after the session, where you can ask everything that you didn't understand.

My first goal is to make the student money. When they pay 500euro+ per hour they don't want too many theories.
Critical thinking can be learnt in philosophy courses (which i'm a fan of). It's not crucial in poker until a very high level.

Critical thinking is actually what holds back most players.

Making money at poker is doing step1,step2, step3 ... There's no deeper science to it.

I don't care about critical thinking and that stuff unless it makes the student money. Usually it doesn't until they reach 10k+ in monthly earnings.

Every discussion below that level can't be taken overly serious. It's like a bum on the street "discussing critically" with a rich guy about personal finance.

Many students use bums as a coach tho, but i don't see the success stories.


Here is how it should work:

1) Shut up. Listen to the coach. You are where you are for a reason. And your coach is where he is because he did what HE did.
2) Apply practically what your coach says. Just do it, give it a fair try
3) Ask questions after doing it to clarify

It's that simple. But for this to happen, the student needs to trust the coach first.

You obviously don't understand what critical thinking is. You seem to have gotten it cofused with the theoretical thinking somehow.

Also didn't mention theories anyway so not really sure where going off on there

Also you seem very hostile for some reason. Perhaps because I don't agree with mindlessly following what a coach says. (I have been coaching for 3 years as well so can see it from this side)

Really your tone is quite out of line for a civil discussion

'Critical thinking*is the ability to*think clearly and rationally about what to do or what to believe. It includes the ability to engage in reflective and independent*thinking. Someone with critical thinking*skills is able to do the following : understand the logical connections between ideas.' (Quoted source)

To help you since you are ignorant of the difference between critical thinking and theory.

Thx for the help professor . I'll hit you up if my grammar needs some overhaul (i think it does!) and you know where to find me when you want your students to make money.

Your ego really shouldn't get offended that easily. Who are you anyways?

Even a guy above who is not exactly a fan of mine agrees.

Anyways, live and love. Peace.

My ego is not hurt. I'm not offended I just don't understand why during rational conversation you are being rude.

You come across as quite arrogant and actually are being outright rude. Really I'm not sure that's needed or justified given a simple difference of opinion

I don't play cash games at all and never have I play tournaments .
I'm not competitor to you I don't even know who you are are actually (but saw you have a coaching thread after reading this thread). Just as you would not be aware of me (as we run in different circles/game type).

The reason I outlined what critical thinking was not to be superior or anything but your response to my thoughts was way off base.

Due to a misunderstanding on what I meant by critical thinking. Hence the post to clarify what I meant.

I still hold true to the idea that discussion with your coach really improves this aspect of poker and mindlessly following what that say can be damaging (for the reasons I outlined) but whatever.

Had a read of your coaching thread I guess you have become very defensive and abrasive due to alot of the criticism you receive there (whether is is justified or not I have no clue or opinion).

Like I said I don't know you or even have an opinion on you coaching pogram.

Just disagreed with that one premise you had, was not trolling or anything. Yet somehow you lost the ability to just post rationally and with some respect.

Gl to you and your program it seems you have had some success.

Actually Gordon, you're the one with the extremely fragile ego, ask anybody.

This is just clearly wrong. You only think that way due to a lifetime of bumhunting fish and avoiding good players. (Pretty clear to everyone that's what CFP's about)

So you are saying that people who bumhunt fish and avoid good players don't make money. This is factually wrong.

I didn't say that at all. You CFP fanboys love putting words in other people's mouth.

It's called simple logic.

ThinkItThrough: "Making money at poker is doing step1,step2, step3 ... There's no deeper science to it."

nahh12: "This is just clearly wrong."

If you say "this is clearly wrong" you're saying that people who do "step1,step2,step3" don't make money. If they do make money, then he's not wrong.

But, maybe you can elaborate and explain why you think he's wrong.

IMO typing is better since you can edit your thoughts and make it more coherent before hitting enter. Also since you can reread each others messages to better understand what they're saying.

Some people prefer audio though, if your student isn't as comfortable with doing it through text then I'd do the call, recording it is a good idea.

This is blatant misinformation. Steps 1-n come from theory, that "deeper science," which is verbiage meant to mystify the word "theory." Theory is not deep science; it's relatively simple math, for the most part. Absolutely, profitable actions may be derived ad hoc, but the student will be left with a myopic view of the game that only leaves him/her wanting more "coaching." For example, just learning you can semi-bluff profitably in a specific spot is great, but what about a slightly different spot with new positions, stack sizes, hands, opponents, etc.? This is where teaching theory encompasses teaching practice, though a mix of both are important. Theory is simply the combination of all possible practices, or strategies, described by variables. So what is above quoted is nonsensical. I'm not being negative toward the idea, just showing it to be nonsense.

Sounds like a coaching business rather than a student helping business.

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To answer OP: record everything, including video. I love mixing different types of sessions as well, like analyzing live play, analyzing recorded play, hand review, theory discussions, home work assignment review, Q&A about mental game, and more.

The best coach will learn what you need and give it to you, efficiently and quickly. You should also have concepts to apply on your own time for studying and self-improvement (it's like coaching after the actual session has ended).

For most players, a variety of approaches is necessary, not only to identify leaks quickly, but also because learning poker doesn't happen in all one venue. If a player brings me his top 10 worst hands of a month, will he get $300 worth out of that? It's extremely likely. If a player allows me to watch a recording of them while playing, will they get the same value? Likely. It's difficult to say for sure because "tough spots" may not present themselves each hour, but what always does present itself is the formulation of reasoning and the ability to speak about conditionals, e.g. if that turn were a king, we should perform strategy X instead of strategy Y because of set of reasons Z.

Every coaching format has a unique set of benefits with different values, so I believe the best approach is a mixed strategy of lesson styles and recording those lessons. That is, unless your student is clearly getting loads more value out of one or more styles, then it is your job as the coach to adjust your strategy to give the student what he/she needs.