lately i have been losing alot of money of money playing poker and i almost want to quit. i have been playing 1-2 with 200max,1-3 300 max, and 2,5 600 max. i thought my strategy was good, but i am starting to think it isnt. i would say i am down about 1000 in four sessions...could a winning poker strategy be simply described as a numbers game or is there more to it. i mean i know there is more to poker than odds and statistics such as reading peoples hands,bluffing,and knowing when to either check,call or fold, but i am wondering if u could win money in the long run by just play by the odds and statisitcs

and i am playing no limit

Sounds like you have a lot to learn about basic strategy, reasons for betting, position, etc... Much more to the game than just odds or following odds charts. add me on skype if you want to discuss basic principles etc at lkpearson12

i know about position and reasons for betting such as to bet to prevent people from drawing,betting for value,betting to bluff and betting to make it look like a bluff
what i mean by only playing the numbers game ands playing by the odds...
if u have AA,KK,AK,QQ odds are u have the best hand preflop. or if u have a say pocket 7's and u flop a set and there 2 diamonds on the board odds are your gonna win more ties in this situation than your going to lose

thats what i mean by the numbers game. you think about ur hand and there hand then consider the odds in ur head of ur hand and ur opponents and if thats how u play than odds are your going to come out ahead more times than your behind

Feel free to contact me.

It doesn't work like that.

You want to think about taking the action that results in you winning the most chips on average against your particular opponent.

I only play heads up, so I can't relate to all the specifics of a 6 max or full ring game, but if you hold AA preflop, you raise and your opponent reraises (3bets), you don't just say "I probably have the best hand, I'm all in."

You first ask yourself what types of hands he is 3betting. If he's 3betting all value hands (never really bluffing), of course you would reraise for value. Perhaps not all in, perhaps smaller than all in. If your opponent were 3betting only bluffs, reraising would only force those hands to fold, so you might consider calling to keep all the bluffs in their range, particularly if you knew they were quite aggressive postflop with their bluffs (and having positional advantage allows them to act first).

Very simplified example of course, it's a bit late, and no idea if it will help you, but there is no real "numbers game" in poker. If you could calculate an opponent's entire range and how to best play a hand in every situation, then yea, it would theoretically just be a #s game, but even the most advanced computers don't seem to be able to do that in most NL poker games these days.

Work on identifying what your opponents are doing in various situations with various types of hands, and how you should best set yourself up to maximize your expected value against those opponents.

The secret is really to focus, practice a ton and not waste time on things that won't help you improve your play.

Hi ihate poker, I'm not a coach but I play in Tampa at these same limits, 1-2 mostly right now. It sound like you are playing at the dog tracks based on the 1-2 200 max buy in, my guess is Derby or Silks? Do you play at THR?

I think you can profitably play just "odds and statistics" at these limits in the Tampa rooms if you are generally playing a semi decent ABC TAG type strategy. From my experience I believe that optimal play involves more than just ABC, however there is a fine line in getting too "creative" as most of your opponents at these rooms are not thinking beyond level 1.

There are a lot of gamboolers at these tracks who will chase any draw ("I called your PF raise OOP w J9os because that hand always seems to make st8s and when I saw the T and the 7 on the flop I knew I was going to hit, I had to call your turn shove!) or call down with weak made hands (middle or bottom pair) even if you are barreling into them so being down $1,000 in 4 sessions is more than likely just variance. Especially if you are talking 2-5 w a $600 starting stack, assuming you are buying in for a full stack that is less than 2 BI downswing, this is nothing. In general but 10+ BI downswings in NL are not uncommon.

Good luck, downswings are a part of the game, PM if you would like to discuss further.

to clarifiy i only play nl,1-2,1-3 with 7-9 players
i would love to argue about the hole numbers game with u some more because i still think there is. think about it this way...only play a limited number of hands and when you do play thosee hands play cards with high odds of winning preflop
another simple example of the numbers game in poker a big hand is stronger with a lower amount of players in the hand

an example of how the numbers game comes into effect once the flop is out is say if you hold pocket 7 there is five people in the hand and the flop comes
7,jack,2 with 2 diamonds and theres 5 people in the hand ur probably gonna be favored by 70% or more against even someone chasing the nut flush draw and its very very very very very unlikly youll be upagainst another set.

the numbers game would be like if u played out the hand where u flopped a set of 7s and someone is chasing the nut flush draw, your going to win the hand 70 times out of 100 and the guy chasing the flush is only going to win 30 times out of 100.

if u keep playing like this theoretically u should come out ahead more times than ur gonna come out behind. i understand betting for value or betting to bluff and understand what the other guy is probably going to do

I DO PLAY AT THE TAMPABAY DOWNS AND HARD ROCK

HOW DO U SEND PRIVATE MESSAGES ON HERE?

You need to have a certain number of posts under your belt. Obviously numbers is important but it is only one element of the game, though an important one....

so u have componets that make up ur strategy such as the "numbers game"(odds and statistics),reading ur opponents,knowing what hand to play and how to play each hand,betting, bluffing...the main problem i am having is the people i am playing against it is almost impossible to put them on any sort of hand...the ppl that play 2,5 & j,7& 10&6 playing such low stake 1-2 with a 200 buy in u would like ppl wouldnt call a 10-20 raise preflop with hands like that but they do... i played 2-5 for about 20hrs and i was still noticing the same thing..25-40 dollar raises with hands like 2,5/j,7/10,6

i would say statistics and odds are number one in the strategy,then reading ur opponents..correct me if i am wrong

what do u guys think the most important part of strategy if not odds and statistics or what do u guys think the most important part of strategy for playing 1-2,or 1-3

It's difficult how to sum up how to play 1/2nl live when it is 7 to the flop every hand in a post. And obviously when you wait for your big pair and you lose to a random two pair you get frustrated, and you are correct, numbers and odds are important. There are plenty of people that play in those games that goof around are there to see flops and have fun- and some nights they will get lucky and win, but most nights they will lose stack after stack. If you know how to play sound, and in those type of games specifically, and don't have tilt issues, you can win lots. Those are the easiest games to beat although you will have your share of variance.

Obviously playing the right odds is a fundamental concept, if you are not consistently making +EV plays you will lose at poker (i.e. "The Theory of Poker").

As far as putting people who play any two suited cards on a hand or range of hands, it sounds like you may not raising enough pre flop and/or you may be taking marginal hands to far in un raised pots. I realize that some of them will still call w J5 in a raised pot because "it was soooted" but if they are not respecting your raises you have to raise more. If your LP raises in a 1-2 game of 12 are not getting them to fold the garbage then go to 15, 20, etc. until they do. If you whiff the flop and they always call your c-bet don't c-bet unless you make a hand or have a strong draw. They are not "floating" you in the traditional sense, they just see that the board is 952r and they have J5 so they have a pair and there are no high cards, ergo the thinking is "my hand must be good".

At these stakes it also very important to value bet your strong hands relentlessly. One of the biggest mistakes I see day in and day out is people min. re raising PF (i.e. opening bet is 6 and there are 3 callers, then someone min. raises to 12) and getting in multi way pots and getting upset when AA gets shot down. Or flopping 2 pair or a set and trying to "trap" 6 other players and getting beat by a st8 or flush and then bemoaning their "bad luck".

It's also very important to understand the player types. I find that certain generalizations almost always work, such as when almost any 60+ year old re raises any street he's got the nuts or near nuts, most of the players at these stakes don't try to make any significant river bluffs (there are exceptions, but not many), etc.

Again the simple ABC TAG strategy works at these stakes. If you want to get paid off more you need to modify this a little to cultivate a (slightly) looser image, but in most cases they won't be paying enough attention anyway. They darned sure aren't laying down the flush draw to your turn shove even if you turn your hand face up to show top set! But this is what you want, this is how you get paid.

Hi BOP! Can you tell me a few ideas you have used through the years to cultivate a slightly looser table image?

Thanks,
Redant!

Hi Redant, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, didn't see your question. PM me to discuss further.

You mentioned you lost some big pots, can you post some hands to discuss?